7mm-08 vs .308 win in a blr 81

You wouldn't see any difference whatsoever between the 7/08 and 308 on BG with similar weighted and constructed bullets. They are SO similar in every respect that to argue otherwise is silly.


If you need more "knockdown/smackdown/hitting power/blowover/thump", buy a 338WM, 358NM or a 375magnum.


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popper said:
I know that once the mythical knockdown power comes into play we can argue forever...
That's why let's look at the Winchester ammunition guide - they have maybe the best system for matching a cartridge to a game. The link is about the ballistic silvertip cartridges - one of Winchester premium bullets:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/supreme/ballistic-silvertip/Pages/default.aspx

As you can see Winchester rates 7-08 as a thin skin game only (white tail, mule, antelope, black bear) only and both .308 cartridges are rated big game thick skin which includes Elk, Mouse, Caribou etc.
The problem is obviously not in the bullet since the 7mm mag with the same bullet is rated Big game thick skin...
I couldn't help but notice that the super premium Supreme Elite line with the new XP3 bullet does not even show 7-08 caliber at all...
I couldn't find any Winchester 7-08 load recommended for Elk & Mouse but found at least 3 in .308...

I rest my case...
Click to expand...


You might want to take Winchesters recommendations with a grain of salt as they also recommend the 308win with 150 Ballistic Silvertip for Brown Bear:eek:!

I doubt there is a Brown Bear Guide in the world that would tell their client to bring that combo for a hunt!!
 
shortaction said:
You might want to take Winchesters recommendations with a grain of salt as they also recommend the 308win with 150 Ballistic Silvertip for Brown Bear:eek:!

I doubt there is a Brown Bear Guide in the world that would tell their client to bring that combo for a hunt!!
Click to expand...

I agree that maybe they should have rated the brown bear with the dangerous game, but the Winchester CXP rating works by weight mostly and CXP2 (7-08 loads) is for up to 300lb game while CXP3 (some .308 loads) is for game 300-1000+lb - totally different class.

BTW, if you look at Federal also you will see that they have at least 2 .308 loads (165 & 180 gr Vital Shocks with Barnes TSX & Nosler partition bullets) rated for large, heavy game and all their 7-08s are just medium game...

So BOTH Winchester and Federal rate .308 as a big game cartridge and 7-08 as a medium game one...
 
popper said:
I know that once the mythical knockdown power comes into play we can argue forever...
That's why let's look at the Winchester ammunition guide - they have maybe the best system for matching a cartridge to a game. The link is about the ballistic silvertip cartridges - one of Winchester premium bullets:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/supreme/ballistic-silvertip/Pages/default.aspx

As you can see Winchester rates 7-08 as a thin skin game only (white tail, mule, antelope, black bear) only and both .308 cartridges are rated big game thick skin which includes Elk, Mouse, Caribou etc.
The problem is obviously not in the bullet since the 7mm mag with the same bullet is rated Big game thick skin...
I couldn't help but notice that the super premium Supreme Elite line with the new XP3 bullet does not even show 7-08 caliber at all...
I couldn't find any Winchester 7-08 load recommended for Elk & Mouse but found at least 3 in .308...

I rest my case...
Click to expand...

popper said:
I agree that maybe they should have rated the brown bear with the dangerous game, but the Winchester CXP rating works by weight mostly and CXP2 (7-08 loads) is for up to 300lb game while CXP3 (some .308 loads) is for game 300-1000+lb - totally different class.

BTW, if you look at Federal also you will see that they have at least 2 .308 loads (165 & 180 gr Vital Shocks with Barnes TSX & Nosler partition bullets) rated for large, heavy game and all their 7-08s are just medium game...

So BOTH Winchester and Federal rate .308 as a big game cartridge and 7-08 as a medium game one...
Click to expand...

As Supercub said- this is getting silly.

Regardless of what Federal or Winchester "rates" their ammo for, it's important to also use our own brains to come to common sense conclusions. Quite simply- using the same type of bullet of about the same weight, at about the same velocity will result in the same results regardless of if it was launched from a 308 or 708.

And if we absolutely must rely on "rating systems" then we should also read recommendations from Barnes, Nosler, Speer etc, who all have no problem rating the 7-08 as a big game cartridge.
 
Gatehouse said:
As Supercub said- this is getting silly.

Regardless of what Federal or Winchester "rates" their ammo for, it's important to also use our own brains to come to common sense conclusions. Quite simply- using the same type of bullet of about the same weight, at about the same velocity will result in the same results regardless of if it was launched from a 308 or 708.

And if we absolutely must rely on "rating systems" then we should also read recommendations from Barnes, Nosler, Speer etc, who all have no problem rating the 7-08 as a big game cartridge.
Click to expand...

Silly it is. I talk about factory ammo and you about handloads...
On a side note, since the original topic was the BLR and the its rate of twist is 1 in 9 1/2" for 7-08, how is it going to do with 175 gr bullets?
 
popper said:
Silly it is. I talk about factory ammo and you about handloads..
Click to expand...
.

Might as well discuss all aspects if comparing 2 cartridges. That includes factory ammo, handloads, different bullets, etc.

If you only want to discuss factory ammunition, you will see that Federal makes a 140gr TSX 7-08 load. This load will have no problem outperforming a .308 using 180gr cup and core bullets, and will have no problem putting down moose.


On a side note, since the original topic was the BLR and the its rate of twist is 1 in 9 1/2" for 7-08, how is it going to do with 175 gr bullets?
Click to expand...

Should work fine for any bullet you want to shoot in a 7-08, including 175gr bullets.
 
popper said:
I admit that I am not a big 7-08 fan, but cannot recall seeing any commercial loads with 175 gr bullets (commercial 180 gr bullet loads in .308 are abundant)...If we are talking hand loads you can go much higher than 180 gr in .308 since you have the biggest choice of bullets in the most popular caliber...
And the "knockdown" power is not about penetration only - especially with a small caliber bullet like 7mm (or even .308)...
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adequate penetration is the single most important factor.
 
For hunting at reasonable range can't see there being an issue.1000 yard competition, that's a different story.162/168 and up I believe it is recommended for a 9" minimum twist.The Bergers state this right on the box.

From my experience 9.25" twist with 140 grain in 7mm-08 is the sweet spot for some reason..You get a high BC bullet in 140 and you are good to go on any game you like, even at distance.Bonded, partition, etc.

My 1 in 9" Twist really likes 150's, SSII's for hunting , and for those long range hunters it still has 1296 ft/lbs at 500 yards with modest muzzle velocities for you number junkies out there.I do not however take game at this range.

Once again it comes down to tailoring your load/bullet for what you are doing and selecting the proper bullet for the game you are after or choosing the proper factory offering.

.308 vs 7mm-08, the difference, it don't matter really.


popper said:
Silly it is. I talk about factory ammo and you about handloads...
On a side note, since the original topic was the BLR and the its rate of twist is 1 in 9 1/2" for 7-08, how is it going to do with 175 gr bullets?
Click to expand...
 
popper said:
I know that once the mythical knockdown power comes into play we can argue forever...
That's why let's look at the Winchester ammunition guide - they have maybe the best system for matching a cartridge to a game. The link is about the ballistic silvertip cartridges - one of Winchester premium bullets:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/supreme/ballistic-silvertip/Pages/default.aspx

As you can see Winchester rates 7-08 as a thin skin game only (white tail, mule, antelope, black bear) only and both .308 cartridges are rated big game thick skin which includes Elk, Mouse, Caribou etc.
The problem is obviously not in the bullet since the 7mm mag with the same bullet is rated Big game thick skin...
I couldn't help but notice that the super premium Supreme Elite line with the new XP3 bullet does not even show 7-08 caliber at all...
I couldn't find any Winchester 7-08 load recommended for Elk & Mouse but found at least 3 in .308...

I rest my case...
Click to expand...

Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, all have similar trucks and kill many moose/deer/black-bear per year just fine.

So does the 7mm08. Sir, I rest our case, The .308 and 7mm08 are almost identical for most purposes, but the 7mm08 is just cooler:HR:

And you are incorrect, I would think that a "Mouse" would be thin skinned game. I thought you mentioned that winchester was the final determining factor in all ballistic disputes.

Do you work at the gun counter at Wholesale Sports?
 
powder burner said:
Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, all have similar trucks and kill many moose/deer/black-bear per year just fine.

So does the 7mm08. Sir, I rest our case, The .308 and 7mm08 are almost identical for most purposes, but the 7mm08 is just cooler:HR:

And you are incorrect, I would think that a "Mouse" would be thin skinned game. I thought you mentioned that winchester was the final determining factor in all ballistic disputes.

Do you work at the gun counter at Wholesale Sports?
Click to expand...

I do not think Winchester is a final determining factor in all ballistic disputes. I thought that they (and Federal for that matter) would know how to rate their own products best.
And since you give an example with Ford trucks - are you going to get a F150 (that Ford rates at 10000 lb towing) to tow your 24000 lb load or you will get a Superduty that is rated for towing 24000 lb? But then again - what does Ford know about trucks, Ford shouldn't be a determining factor...And we all know F150 and Superduty are identical for most purposes, but F150 is just cooler...
 
popper said:
I thought that they (and Federal for that matter) would know how to rate their own products best.
Click to expand...

Well, you thought wrong... Come on man, use some common sense, or better yet, real world experience. What these guys are trying to tell you is correct.

As you can see Winchester rates 7-08 as a thin skin game only (white tail, mule, antelope, black bear) only and both .308 cartridges are rated big game thick skin which includes Elk, Mouse, Caribou etc.
Click to expand...

What you posted here should tell you how truly dumb those manufacturers ratings are. If not, you need to get out and kill more animals.
 
popper said:
I do not think Winchester is a final determining factor in all ballistic disputes. I thought that they (and Federal for that matter) would know how to rate their own products best.
And since you give an example with Ford trucks - are you going to get a F150 (that Ford rates at 10000 lb towing) to tow your 24000 lb load or you will get a Superduty that is rated for towing 24000 lb? But then again - what does Ford know about trucks, Ford shouldn't be a determining factor...And we all know F150 and Superduty are identical for most purposes, but F150 is just cooler...
Click to expand...

NO, it just depends which manufacturers TV commercial is playing as you flip through the channels. Cause each one says the other brand is no good. When we all know they are pretty much identical in terms of performance.
 
popper said:
Silly it is. I talk about factory ammo and you about handloads...
On a side note, since the original topic was the BLR and the its rate of twist is 1 in 9 1/2" for 7-08, how is it going to do with 175 gr bullets?
Click to expand...

What the 175 gr in a BLR is going to do is perform miserably. Maybe 2350 FPS. And thats not the bad part if it performed as inteneded...........
Short Mag, long bullet,.... short small case stuffed deep with the long bullet. Results poor performance at best. How about lots of torque twist on firing, not getting put to bed(twist too slow for those long puppies) and wobbling all the way to missing the side of a Barn in its rainbow trajectory.:eek:

WhoTF would use a 175gr in a 7mm-08 BLR? How did this get brought into this argument?
Was this pulled from a Tickle Trunk? Wheres Finnegan when you need him.:p

Back to the original argument, as already stated by supercub their ballistic performance at real world range on whatever Big game you choose, would be probaly slight if at all measurable.
 
I just want to say BLRs are great. I dont own one, but I killed more deer than I can recall with my dad's (308) in my youth. As for the 308 vs 7mm-08 If your concerned about recoil go with the 7mm-08. Both are great cartirges.
 
I would bet that there would be almost no noticeable difference in recoil between the two being as the BLR is so damn light to begin with.Yes I have one, I like it very much.

You can load both to have the energy/velocity/bullet combination to kill game at longer ranges than most should be shooting.

Will one kill better than the other? Not at all.

It really , really does not matter which you choose.

Play spin the cartridge on the gun shop counter, whichever one points closest to ya, take that one!




jk123 said:
I just want to say BLRs are great. I dont own one, but I killed more deer than I can recall with my dad's (308) in my youth. As for the 308 vs 7mm-08 If your concerned about recoil go with the 7mm-08. Both are great cartirges.
Click to expand...
 
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