If you would shoot it with a bow why not a .243?

RoscoeT

RoscoeT

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This is not a hunting ethics debate. If that's your bag, move along.

I was reading on an other site where someone was talking about using his .243 for an upcoming elk hunt. Well you can imagine the thread when to hell fast.

People who never use a .243 will say that you can barely kill deer with it, etc.

But someone did actually make a good point.

Given that my .243 will consistently make golf ball sized exit wounds in deer how is that worse than using a bow?

If you would shoot an elk with a bow, how is the .243 lighter than a bow?

Anyone see any failing to that logic?

Please keep this thread on the rails and do not let it get into the usually silliness that these "is this enough gun" threads get into.
 
the basic of this is simple, bow and gun kill in different way (well, the gun suppose to)

elk being bigger, more musckled, heavier boned animal is tougher to kill then a deer

also a gun hunter will most likely take bigger risks (try shooting from greater distance for example) while bow hunter (ok, a responsible one) knows he only has one chance to make it good


there are exceptions ofcourse *flame suite on*
 
I would say with a Bow or .243 your shot placement is what will make or break your hunt. Putting either one into the shoulder blade of a bull Elk might end in you tracking the game for miles or worse wounding it and never retrieving it.

If you treated the .243 like a bow and kept shots to 60yds or so you should be fine.

At the end of the day if you are going on a rifle Elk hunt bring the proper tool for the job. So whats the proper tool? to me it would be my custom .264wm firing 140gr Accubonds or Partitions.
 
You nailed the Exact reason I don't bowhunt. Truth be known most of my rifle shots have likely been closer range than most bowhunters. In a few instances I've had to wait for the animal to get far enough away to shoot it. I love the hunt; the stalk, and feel it is my responsibility as a hunter to make the kill as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Not only out of respect for the animal, but also to improve the quality of the meat. (I'm a hunter, not a wuss)
I just don't like the idea of poking an animal with a sharp stick and waiting for it to slowly bleed to death for hours.

I have hunted with a 243 for decades. I personally would not hunt anything larger than deer with it.

If you choose to hunt large game with a .243 or similar, understand that very accurate shot placement is EVERYTHING.

Someone mentioned the old adage about being able to hit an 8" pie plate from 100 yds 10 shots in a row before hunting. If you want to hunt with a small calibre, make that a 4" circle or you'll be wounding game.

Argue all you want, that's a fact.

Understand I'm not saying you shouldn't, I'm just saying I won't, and why.
 
To sum it up in a nutshell, a gun and a bow kill in different ways. The razor sharp blades of a broadhead are designed to cut arteries and veins causing the animal to bleed out quickly and die. A rifle bullet is designed to kill by shock and maximum tissue damage. The difference between an arrow and a .243 bullet would not only be the size of the wound channel but also how much damage each projectile will make. Although both will kill at short range I would bet that the arrow shot elk would be recovered in a much shorter distance.
 
an animal shot with a bow will typically not run as far as one shot with a rifle because of the noise.

a deer shot "silently" with a bow will run for a bit then usually stop and bleed out.. easier to track and find.. a rifle wounded deer may run a hell of a long way (depending on the wound) and chances are you wont find it...

not saying that a .243 wont kill an elk at short range and with proper shot placement.
 
I'm not a bow hunter but it's hard for me to see how a bow could do more damage than my .243 with 100gr Winchester Power Points. That thing punches a golf ball sized hole clean though them. How can a broad head match that?
I realize shot placement is always key. That's why I never have to track.

I felt that it was a very valid point in the age old "enough gun" debate.
 
The wife shoots a 243.
Our moose steak supper was wonderful.
Making a good shot with a bow is as important as it is with a rifle. Bowhunters trying the "Hail Mary" lose as many critters as rifle hunters who do the same. Learn the limits of your equipment and yourself and enjoy many wonderful meals and experiences. No matter what you shoot.
 
ebrand said:
Learn the limits of your equipment and yourself and enjoy many wonderful meals and experiences. No matter what you shoot.
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Very well put! A badly placed shot of any caliber or an arrow can result in lost game. I've harvested big game animals with bow, muzzleloader and rifle and enjoy all 3 seasons. Although I own a .243 I don't personally use it for big game, although my wife does hunt with it. I guess I prefer to hunt with a little more knock down power,that being said my nephew made a great shot on a running doe with the .243 last year and dropped her in her tracks. My view has always been "whatever floats your boat", as long as your having fun doing it and not leaving a trail of unrecovered animals in the woods.
 
RoscoeT said:
I'm not a bow hunter but it's hard for me to see how a bow could do more damage than my .243 with 100gr Winchester Power Points. That thing punches a golf ball sized hole clean though them. How can a broad head match that?
I realize shot placement is always key. That's why I never have to track.

I felt that it was a very valid point in the age old "enough gun" debate.
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That's just it razor broadheads don't do "Damage" per-say they slice and cork screw threw game. As mentioned a few posts above boradheads kill by cutting arteries, veins, nerves and vital organs. A bullet kills via Shock and trauma not necessarily blood loss.

A broadhead will leave roughly a 1.5" hole on either side of the animal and slice everything it its path to mince meat where as your cheapo 100gr .243 bullet will have a tiny 6mm entry wound and a 1.68" exit wound if you get an exit on an Elk.....
 
Suka said:
I just don't like the idea of poking an animal with a sharp stick and waiting for it to slowly bleed to death for hours.

I really don't agree with this statement. Perhaps you've never seen a arrow and broadhead do it's thing. I'm not 'mister bowhunter' but I have shot 2 moose and both have dropped within 25 yrds of where I shot them. One was at 17yrds and one at 45 yrds, both pass throughs.
I'm not saying there arn't boneheads making shots with bow tackle that they shouldn't have' but the same goes for rifle hunters. In my opinion the 243 will do a fine job within it's range and if the shot placement is good. It may not be my choice, but only because if I did see a monster out there at 250yrds or so, I would really like to take the shot with a gun that might be better suited for a longer shot.
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RoscoeT said:
I'm not a bow hunter but it's hard for me to see how a bow could do more damage than my .243 with 100gr Winchester Power Points. That thing punches a golf ball sized hole clean though them. How can a broad head match that?
I realize shot placement is always key. That's why I never have to track.

I felt that it was a very valid point in the age old "enough gun" debate.
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The only difference is if you hit a bone with the 243 the bullet might fragment and lose energy, a steel broadhead will stay together and still do it's intended purpose
 
Bullets and broadheads kill the same way, by causing blood loss. They just achieve it in different ways. The bullet achieves it through massive tissue damage to vital organs due to high velocity. The broadhead achieves tissue damage through the cutting of vital organs. An animal hit right by either will die quickly.
 
I think there is more of a chance of bullet failure on big tough Elk using a .243, than there is of arrow failure. This is another thread that causes problems for folks who realize that there are much better tools for use on large game animals and we wonder why the originator doesn't just opt for a gun in a bigger, more effective caliber that provides additional punch/penetration to assist in providing a quick, clean, kill.
 
pie1 said:
How many threads of " is this enough gun" do we need...
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That is not what I started this thread for. Nor is this an ethics debate.

It was started to discuss the valid point that had been made of how a bow would be acceptable where a .243 might not.

Personally I feel it's all about knowing how to use the tools you have in hand at the time and conditions. I never asked if X is enough gun because the answer is always "it depends".

I always found it funny that there are folks who feel that the .243 is not even suitable for deer. Without ever owning one that is.

The deer that I shoot all die very quickly and have large exit wounds. How much more dead are we looking for?
 
skhunter said:
Bullets and broadheads kill the same way, by causing blood loss. They just achieve it in different ways. The bullet achieves it through massive tissue damage to vital organs due to high velocity. The broadhead achieves tissue damage through the cutting of vital organs. An animal hit right by either will die quickly.
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not really, a bullet kills more through shock then by hemorrege, or rather its intended to do that
 
rhino519 said:
not really, a bullet kills more through shock then by hemorrege, or rather its intended to do that
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If it was shock that killed I would think you could hit a deer anywhere and get a quick kill. I have seen deer hit badly (paunch, one shoulder, leg, hind quarter) disappear and never be recovered. I would think the "shock" would be the same, but becuase it didn't cause enough blood loss the animal was not recovered. Hydrostatic shock is what makes it possible for a bullet to cause the massive tissue damage to vital organs which in turn causes massive blood loss and lack of oxygen to the brain which results in death.
 
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