STI uses MIM, Para Ordnance, Smith and Wesson. Maybe other company too.
STI weblink on MIM
http://www.stiguns.com/FAQ-MIM.php
Kimber 1911 how good are they
- Thread starter Audet
- Start date
STI uses MIM, Para Ordnance, Smith and Wesson. Maybe other company too.
STI weblink on MIM
http://www.stiguns.com/FAQ-MIM.php
Did you really mean to use 'couch commando' when referring to Hilton Yam???? I guess Bill Wilson falls into the same category. Regarding MIM parts, Colt (and most other manufacturers) will tell you exactly which parts they use that are MIM, Kimber will not. They also won't tell why they won't tell you. As I said earlier, Kimbers are a great range gun, but in the real world (which may or may not affect you) they fail often enough that USMC no longer use them for MEUSOC (more couch commandos?) and the FBI wouldn't adopt them.
Long but great thread with points from both sides here... ht tp://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=305140
I have read Hilton saying good and bad things about Kimber (and MIM)... I'm at work now but I'll try to find the sources later.
And Bill Wilson is trying to sell his guns which cost 2-3 times as much, of course he has to justify why. He's not going to say, "WC guns are the best but Kimbers are almost as good and only 40% of the price."
FYI Kimber does say what parts are MIM if you email them:
From: Devin Antonovich [DAntonovich@kimberamerica.com]
MIM: A process in which powdered chrome moly steel is mixed with a polymer carrier, placed into an oversized mold, and sintered. The part shrinks to size in the process [and is] then heat-treated.
Many of the important internal parts on a Kimber are MIM parts:
Slide Stop
Thumb safety
Grip safety
Disconnector
Sear
Hammer
Strut
Magazine catch
I have read Hilton saying good and bad things about Kimber (and MIM)... I'm at work now but I'll try to find the sources later.
And Bill Wilson is trying to sell his guns which cost 2-3 times as much, of course he has to justify why. He's not going to say, "WC guns are the best but Kimbers are almost as good and only 40% of the price."
FYI Kimber does say what parts are MIM if you email them:
From: Devin Antonovich [DAntonovich@kimberamerica.com]
MIM: A process in which powdered chrome moly steel is mixed with a polymer carrier, placed into an oversized mold, and sintered. The part shrinks to size in the process [and is] then heat-treated.
Many of the important internal parts on a Kimber are MIM parts:
Slide Stop
Thumb safety
Grip safety
Disconnector
Sear
Hammer
Strut
Magazine catch
Kimber+replacing parts(Wilson or Ed Brown)+Gunsmith wages/time+refinishing= You guessed it the price of a Ed Brown,or Wilson,(The lower priced "base models")
Just get a bloody Ed Brown or Wilson in the first place M.I.M. was nade for my hotwheel cars not my 1911
Well I have learned a lot, choosing a 1911 under $1500 isn't simple... I handles a Colt, Kimber, SIG, SW, DW and SVI today. The last two are a bit over budget but certainly feel good. I liked the way SIG SAUER feels in my hands but it seamed looser than the others, are those as accurate? I already have a CZ for IPSC so I am not looking for a target pistol but for $1000 to $1500 I expect a good shooter...
So MIM parts are cheaper to produce so the saving is also past on the customer. Makes sense that a Kimber is cheaper then a Dan Wesson or Wilson Combat or Nighthawk etc...
Does anyone have personal experience with faulty or problems with MIM parts in a Kimber or any other brand in a 1911.
Does anyone have personal experience with faulty or problems with MIM parts in a Kimber or any other brand in a 1911.
Yeah me too...
My Kimber SIS was the most accurate handgun I've ever owned. Not a single issue with it the entire time I owned it, and I used it in the harshest of conditions. I would certainly not hesitate to buy another one.
If I were shopping for a new 1911 now, I'd look at Kimber and Sig.
If I were shopping for a new 1911 now, I'd look at Kimber and Sig.
In 2004 I bought a Kimber Tactical Pro II (106mm) for $1700, which I still own. I originally bought it as a PD gun, then used it for IPSC until I bought my STI Edge, a vast improvement for that purpose for sure. I have had some reliability issues with my Kimber; it's fussy with ammo, only liking 230g ball, and I had my share of return to battery malfunctions. Neither the slide or trigger are very smooth but it always extracts and ejects, and as of late it has been more reliable now that it has seen about 4000 rounds. I don't think I would stake my life on this gun, not without some time at a gunsmith and a few thousand more rounds without failure. If I had it to do over would I buy this pistol again? Probably not; for an extra $800 I could by a nice used, low mile Wilson CQB, or spend some more and by the Wilson I'd like. My good friend has a Kimber Gold Match II that he has performed some tuning and upgrades to, and shoots in IPSC when he feels like shooting single stack. He really likes it and the pistol has been dead reliable.
I think it really comes down to what you expect for your budget, and if you're willing to spend some time and money tuning it.
YMMV.
I think it really comes down to what you expect for your budget, and if you're willing to spend some time and money tuning it.
YMMV.
The argument about MIM parts carrys more weight in the US where people rely on their pistols for personal protection via concealed carry. Up here if something breaks its a piss off and a short trip to the range but not the end of the world. Still I have never heard of any MIM parts on a Kimber breaking or failing in any way. I think of them as a quality 1911 and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
It's not a hack on BDW...just a comment on how much WC 1911s cost, anywhere.
X2!!!
my gold combat has been (and likely always will be) my best 1911 shooter. lots of use, and still as tight and shiny as she was new.....(unlike the wi.....just kidding
)if you can swing something from the custom shop you wont regret it. (Ive seen Wilson's and nighthawks have to go back to the factory from the box due to factory flaws....it happens to the best of em)
Cheers, SIGNUT
simply stating that one should form their own opinion based on personal experience and research done on the firearm and not rely on articles that where supposedly written by 1911 gurus who also run their own businesses competing with the company in question
Consider that both Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers have no trouble recommending other brands from whom they receive no funds, and that neither of them produce a pistol which competes in any way with any offering from Kimber... Yam's outfit used to recommend them in the Series 1 days...they later experienced so many issues they stopped recommending them. They have continued recommending other guns, so it's not like they don't recommend 1911s other than what they build. They just don't recommend Kimbers, because of the extensive issues generated by the later models in particular.
To my knowledge Larry Vickers has pretty much stopped building 1911s entirely, and Hilton Yam only does one-off customs. So they really stand to gain or lose nothing by advising anyone on whether to buy a particular mid-level pistol or not.
Further to that, when I stop to think about the big name guys who build fighting 1911s on owner-supplied guns, like Dave Berryhill, say...I cannot think of a single one who recommends Kimbers. I can think of quite a few who I have seen advise against them, though.
But I definitely agree that people should do their own research.
I advise one caution when doing research though: look at whose opinion you're reading.
Is it a person with extensive 1911 experience who has run their gun up to 10 or 15 thousand rounds, or is it some guy who will tell you they have 3000 flawless rounds...when it's actually more like 800 rounds, and they've forgotten about the 7 stoppages they had because they decided it was probably related to a "break-in period"?
Is this a person who has had a dozen different 1911s and run thousands of rounds through every one - think about what that costs to do - or is this a person who's owned 3 1911s, and shot a combined total of 2000 rounds (which they will describe on the internet as 10,000 rounds)?
In short, is the person an expert, or a hobbyist who bought a pistol for $1500 and needs to justify the purchase to themselves?
If you feel you can answer all of those questions about the source, then you probably can assess whatever information they're giving you pretty accurately.
To my knowledge Larry Vickers has pretty much stopped building 1911s entirely, and Hilton Yam only does one-off customs. So they really stand to gain or lose nothing by advising anyone on whether to buy a particular mid-level pistol or not.
Further to that, when I stop to think about the big name guys who build fighting 1911s on owner-supplied guns, like Dave Berryhill, say...I cannot think of a single one who recommends Kimbers. I can think of quite a few who I have seen advise against them, though.
But I definitely agree that people should do their own research.
I advise one caution when doing research though: look at whose opinion you're reading.
Is it a person with extensive 1911 experience who has run their gun up to 10 or 15 thousand rounds, or is it some guy who will tell you they have 3000 flawless rounds...when it's actually more like 800 rounds, and they've forgotten about the 7 stoppages they had because they decided it was probably related to a "break-in period"?
Is this a person who has had a dozen different 1911s and run thousands of rounds through every one - think about what that costs to do - or is this a person who's owned 3 1911s, and shot a combined total of 2000 rounds (which they will describe on the internet as 10,000 rounds)?
In short, is the person an expert, or a hobbyist who bought a pistol for $1500 and needs to justify the purchase to themselves?
If you feel you can answer all of those questions about the source, then you probably can assess whatever information they're giving you pretty accurately.
