25-06 and big game

bearhunter338-06

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With all the new premium bullets out now like the Barnes TSX and TTSX, do you feel that this has brought the 25-06 into the realm of a big game caliber for use on moose and elk.

Of course we are talking well placed shots into heart/lung area.
 
With good bullets, it would be excellent on moose or elk. More gun than the widely acclaimed 6.5 x 55.
 
With all the new premium bullets out now like the Barnes TSX and TTSX, do you feel that this has brought the 25-06 into the realm of a big game caliber for use on moose and elk.

Of course we are talking well placed shots into heart/lung area.

I have taken six moose with a 25-06. Four with 120gr Nosler Ps, ant two with plain old Rem cor-lokt. I don't recal any bullets recovered.


lol. good enough for bear?

The bear won't be going LOL!
 
With all the new premium bullets out now like the Barnes TSX and TTSX, do you feel that this has brought the 25-06 into the realm of a big game caliber for use on moose and elk.

Of course we are talking well placed shots into heart/lung area.

The .25-06 has been a big game caliber for ages.
 
I'd have zero hesitations with a quality bullet, but I wouldn't push the distance much past 300 yards on moose/elk
 
Depends on the distance that you are shooting close range no problem
Thats kinda funny I am willing to move my 6.5 (once i get my load development figured) out a long ways but I will not push my 458 win mag with 510 grs past 200 yard if I'm real comfie. It depends on your skill and the abilities of your fire arm, stay within your abiltiy then almost any round is capabile. I used to be a competative target marksman and I have had to stop and remind myself of shooting technique and breathing when I shoot as I tend for forget the fundamentals as I dont practise as much as I used to and no longer have a coach to steer me in the right direction. I miss those carefree years of high school and Air Cadets
 
With good bullets, it would be excellent on moose or elk. More gun than the widely acclaimed 6.5 x 55.

I'll accept that given a good bullet, the .25/06 is acceptable for big game larger than deer out to 300 yards, but IMHO, with the bullets that are available today, it falls short of the 6.5 Swede. The fact that the majority of moose are killed well within 200 yards suggests that laser beam flat trajectories aren't much of an advantage, particularly when one considers the number that have been dumped with .30/30 class rifles. The advantage of the 6.5 over the .257 is not one of bullet diameter, as a difference in diameter of .007" is pretty much meaningless except in mathematical calculations where theoretical advantages appear to be much bigger than they are in reality; but the difference in bullet weight cannot be ignored. Lets look at the available bullets. The heaviest bullet available in the .25/06 weighs 120 grs and that bullet can be driven at 3000 fps from a .25/06. The heaviest 6.5 bullet weighs 160 gr or roughly 33% more. The Swede's velocity is significantly slower, but a muzzle velocity of 2500 has been getting the job done with heavy for caliber bullets in cartridges like the 7X57 and the .303 for more than a century.

Speed has its place in terms of flattening trajectory, but mass combined with speed is what produces momentum, and in game animals that weigh a half ton or so, penetration is what wins the day. Given two expanding bullets of similar construction and weight within caliber, the one with the higher impact velocity tends to have shallower penetration. Taken to the extreme, an expanding big game bullet with an impact velocity of 3000 fps might have a penetration of 12", but reduce the impact velocity to 1600 fps, the lack of expansion results in 4' of penetration.

If you want a varmint rifle that doubles as a good deer cartridge and is still alright for an occasional moose/elk hunt, the .25/06 is probably a top choice. But if the reverse is true, and you want a general purpose big game rifle that can reach out and smack a coyote, the 6.5s are far ahead.
 
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I'll accept that given a good bullet, the .25/06 is acceptable for big game larger than deer out to 300 yards, but IMHO, with the bullets that are available today, it falls short of the 6.5 Swede. The fact that the majority of moose are killed well within 200 yards suggests that laser beam flat trajectories aren't much of an advantage, particularly when one considers the number that have been dumped with .30/30 class rifles. The advantage of the 6.5 over the .257 is not one of bullet diameter, as a difference in diameter of .007" is pretty much meaningless except in mathematical calculations where theoretical advantages appear to be much bigger than they are in reality; but the difference in bullet weight cannot be ignored. Lets look at the available bullets. The heaviest bullet available in the .25/06 weighs 120 grs and that bullet can be driven at 3000 fps from a .25/06. The heaviest 6.5 bullet weighs 160 gr or roughly 33% more. The Swede's velocity is significantly slower, but a muzzle velocity of 2500 has been getting the job done with heavy for caliber bullets in cartridges like the 7X57 and the .303 for more than a century.

Speed has its place in terms of flattening trajectory, but mass combined with speed is what produces momentum, and in game animals that weigh a half ton or so, penetration is what wins the day. Given two expanding bullets of similar construction and weight within caliber, the one with the higher impact velocity tends to have shallower penetration. Taken to the extreme, an expanding big game bullet with an impact velocity of 3000 fps might have a penetration of 12", but reduce the impact velocity to 1600 fps, the lack of expansion results in 4' of penetration.

If you want a varmint rifle that doubles as a good deer cartridge and is still alright for an occasional moose/elk hunt, the .25/06 is probably a top choice. But if the reverse is true, and you want a general purpose big game rifle that can reach out and smack a coyote, the 6.5s are far ahead.

That's more or less what I was thinking. But you put it better than I would've.

Although, would a 140gr .264 cup/core bullet at 2600 fps really penetrate any more than a 120gr .257 barnes tsx bullet at 3000 fps?

I don't think it would, so with the 25-06 and tsx's you'd have the penetration and the trajectory all in one.

In any case, I've got it covered with my 6.5-06. :dancingbanana:
 
There are lots of arguments and valid criticisms of the speedier smaller bullets
creating two wounds. Entry and exit. I have been taught that the bigger bullet
is more favorable with one entry hole and more internal damage. The force of
impact has something to do with the kill as well. Others may disagree and I'm fine
with this. Ali swatting you in the chops verses a mosquito hitting your face?
All I know for fact is when the 308 win or better yet, the 308 Norma Mag hits the
moose's rib cage, they fall right there.
Back to the 25-06. My long time friend and his wife are avid hunters and she uses
her 25-06 very successfully on moose and elk.
 
I'll accept that given a good bullet, the .25/06 is acceptable for big game larger than deer out to 300 yards, but IMHO, with the bullets that are available today, it falls short of the 6.5 Swede. The fact that the majority of moose are killed well within 200 yards suggests that laser beam flat trajectories aren't much of an advantage, particularly when one considers the number that have been dumped with .30/30 class rifles. The advantage of the 6.5 over the .257 is not one of bullet diameter, as a difference in diameter of .007" is pretty much meaningless except in mathematical calculations where theoretical advantages appear to be much bigger than they are in reality; but the difference in bullet weight cannot be ignored. Lets look at the available bullets. The heaviest bullet available in the .25/06 weighs 120 grs and that bullet can be driven at 3000 fps from a .25/06. The heaviest 6.5 bullet weighs 160 gr or roughly 33% more. The Swede's velocity is significantly slower, but a muzzle velocity of 2500 has been getting the job done with heavy for caliber bullets in cartridges like the 7X57 and the .303 for more than a century.

Speed has its place in terms of flattening trajectory, but mass combined with speed is what produces momentum, and in game animals that weigh a half ton or so, penetration is what wins the day. Given two expanding bullets of similar construction and weight within caliber, the one with the higher impact velocity tends to have shallower penetration. Taken to the extreme, an expanding big game bullet with an impact velocity of 3000 fps might have a penetration of 12", but reduce the impact velocity to 1600 fps, the lack of expansion results in 4' of penetration.

If you want a varmint rifle that doubles as a good deer cartridge and is still alright for an occasional moose/elk hunt, the .25/06 is probably a top choice. But if the reverse is true, and you want a general purpose big game rifle that can reach out and smack a coyote, the 6.5s are far ahead.

Mr. Boomer,
When you talked of a difference in diameter of .007 between the 25-06 and a 6.5, my heart skipped a beat. I always had thought they were the same diameter and for loading a 25-06, you simply chose a .257 bullet.
So, had to go to Wikipedia;

The .25-06 Remington had been a wildcat cartridge for half a century before being standardized by Remington in 1969. It is based on the .30-06 Springfield cartridge necked-down (case opening made narrower) to .257 inch caliber with no other changes. Nominal bullet diameter is 0.257 in (6.53 mm) and bullet weights range from 75 to 120 grains (4.9 to 7.8 g).

The 120 grain maximum bullet weight they refer to is obviously for factory loaded ammo.
 
Oops, I was wrong!
I thought a 6.5 was .257. Actually, .257 is 6.53mm, but the bullets for a 6.5 are .264.
Thus, it appears that heaviest bullets normally available for a 25-06 would be 120 grain, still a pretty wicked load with a Nosler, or something similar.
 
I'll accept that given a good bullet, the .25/06 is acceptable for big game larger than deer out to 300 yards, but IMHO, with the bullets that are available today, it falls short of the 6.5 Swede. The fact that the majority of moose are killed well within 200 yards suggests that laser beam flat trajectories aren't much of an advantage, particularly when one considers the number that have been dumped with .30/30 class rifles. The advantage of the 6.5 over the .257 is not one of bullet diameter, as a difference in diameter of .007" is pretty much meaningless except in mathematical calculations where theoretical advantages appear to be much bigger than they are in reality; but the difference in bullet weight cannot be ignored. Lets look at the available bullets. The heaviest bullet available in the .25/06 weighs 120 grs and that bullet can be driven at 3000 fps from a .25/06. The heaviest 6.5 bullet weighs 160 gr or roughly 33% more. The Swede's velocity is significantly slower, but a muzzle velocity of 2500 has been getting the job done with heavy for caliber bullets in cartridges like the 7X57 and the .303 for more than a century.

Speed has its place in terms of flattening trajectory, but mass combined with speed is what produces momentum, and in game animals that weigh a half ton or so, penetration is what wins the day. Given two expanding bullets of similar construction and weight within caliber, the one with the higher impact velocity tends to have shallower penetration. Taken to the extreme, an expanding big game bullet with an impact velocity of 3000 fps might have a penetration of 12", but reduce the impact velocity to 1600 fps, the lack of expansion results in 4' of penetration.

If you want a varmint rifle that doubles as a good deer cartridge and is still alright for an occasional moose/elk hunt, the .25/06 is probably a top choice. But if the reverse is true, and you want a general purpose big game rifle that can reach out and smack a coyote, the 6.5s are far ahead.

Good post, Boomer!

The bold part above is true as a general rule, but I've found the TSX to turn that rule upside down. The faster they go, the more they penetrate!
 
:confused:
How so? I'm willing to bet a 180 gr Nosler partition fired out of a 300winmag will outpenetrate the same bullet fired out of a 30-30. It's more a case of matching the bullet to the caliber than just claiming slower calibers will outpenetrate faster calibers.

Exactly!
 
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