King of WSM's
- Thread starter mcp1
- Start date
Hammer meet nail.
WSM's go for a higher premium over standard chamberings (???) and hold less in the magazine. On select loads they meet some of the standard caliber loadings but the standards usually have a larger selection of choices.
As for the accuracy I only have limited exposure to the WSM's- both shot as advertized and were good accurate rifles (about an inch +) for hunting.
I have had a fair bit of exposure to standard calibers that the WSM's are compared against and they pretty much shot the same (some better).
As for recoil, the cartridge is only one piece of that puzzle, rifle weight and recoil pad design (etc...) contributes just about as much IMO.
Bought one,
Sold one.
No need to buy another.
Which select loads in .277 are you referring to that sometimes meet the standard loads?
Also the argument that the wsms have less mag capacity is overrated imo. 3 in the mag and one in the spout is 4. I've never had anything stick around long enough for me to shoot it 4 times. If you're shooting AT something more than 4 times you're doing it wrong. One is all it takes. I have no idea why I would ever need more than 4 and like I said one is usually all it takes.
7 Rem Mag still works perfectly!
First things first, 7 WSM is better than 270 WSM but it's also dead so 270 WSM wins simply by being the last man standing.
Second, the complete answer to the question would be very long but the short answer is yes at up to 600-800m when comparing equivalent factory rifles. (7mm Rem Mag has better choice of bullets and faster twist which gives it an edge at long range).
If you use an equivalent barrel twist 1 in 8.5-9" and 165-175 VLD bullets, the answer become yes at any range.
For hunting purposes, it simply won't make a difference (except for long range varminting and long range hunting which are specialties).
As an example, my pencil barrelled 7.5lbs Remington 700 CDL SF shots 4.4cm 5 shot groups at 200m with inexpensive Winchester 130gr 3280fps ammo.
Custom hunting rifles with 27" barrels get 0.4-0.5 MOA 5 shot groups with 165gr hunting VLD at 3100fps.
Next year, I'll be shooting a 270 WSM F-Class rifle if I can find a good 1-8.5" twist barrel, if not, I'll be shooting 7mm-300WSM wildcat!
The key here is not the size of the bullet (.277" or .284") but the short and fat case design which is the proven way to get great and consistent internal ballistics (think 22PPC, 6mm PPPC, 6mm BR, 7 WSM, 300 WSM).
Right now, short and fat cartridges are simply unbeatable and if 338 Norma Mag is adopted by the US Army, even the most powerful long range hunting cartridge will be a short and fat case.
If you're not convinced simply compare a 6mm PPC (or 6mm BR) rifle to a 243 Win rifle, 243 Win is a superb cartridge but 6mm PPC two times are more accurate.
Alex
First things first, 7 WSM is better than 270 WSM but it's also dead so 270 WSM wins simply by being the last man standing.
Second, the complete answer to the question would be very long but the short answer is yes at up to 600-800m when comparing equivalent factory rifles. (7mm Rem Mag has better choice of bullets and faster twist which gives it an edge at long range).
If you use an equivalent barrel twist 1 in 8.5-9" and 165-175 VLD bullets, the answer become yes at any range.
For hunting purposes, it simply won't make a difference (except for long range varminting and long range hunting which are specialties).
As an example, my pencil barrelled 7.5lbs Remington 700 CDL SF shots 4.4cm 5 shot groups at 200m with inexpensive Winchester 130gr 3280fps ammo.
Custom hunting rifles with 27" barrels get 0.4-0.5 MOA 5 shot groups with 165gr hunting VLD at 3100fps.
Next year, I'll be shooting a 270 WSM F-Class rifle if I can find a good 1-8.5" twist barrel, if not, I'll be shooting 7mm-300WSM wildcat!
The key here is not the size of the bullet (.277" or .284") but the short and fat case design which is the proven way to get great and consistent internal ballistics (think 22PPC, 6mm PPPC, 6mm BR, 7 WSM, 300 WSM).
Right now, short and fat cartridges are simply unbeatable and if 338 Norma Mag is adopted by the US Army, even the most powerful long range hunting cartridge will be a short and fat case.
If you're not convinced simply compare a 6mm PPC (or 6mm BR) rifle to a 243 Win rifle, 243 Win is a superb cartridge but 6mm PPC two times are more accurate.
Alex
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since this is a hunting subforum. lets look at it from a hunters perspective. very few hunters shoot beyond 300yrds. most shouldn't be shooting past 100 from what i see at the range. so lets look at the MASSIVE improvement 200fps makes for a rifle zero'd at 200yrds in relation to 300yrd drop.
270win 130gr SP @ 3050 -3.2"
270wsm 130gr SP @ 3250 -5.5"
holy s**t batman! 2.3" flatter! that will make all the difference to johnny alabama in his treestand!
crikey! lets look at the 150gr just to be sure....
250win 150gr SP @ 2850 -7.2"
270wsm 150gr SP @ 3050 -6.2"
praise jebus! the 270wsm is godly in it's new flatness!!!!
325wsm 200gr @ 3000fps -6.8" and 2460ft.lbs @ 300yrds
8x57mauser 200gr @ 2530fps. -10.1" and 1682 @ 300yrds
4.3" of drop? not much difference, until you look at the energy remaining. no doubt the 8x57 is and always will be an excellent hunting cartridge, but how many major rifle manufacturers offer one?
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
x2 phib
and lets ask Bill Leeper which one he prefers.
and lets ask Bill Leeper which one he prefers.
270 WSM is poor man's 270 Weatherby Magnum!
The big difference, is that 200fps extends effective hunting range by 50-75 yards!
You get 2000ft-lbs of energy at 350yards instead of 275yards.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If you follow your logic, you'll end up hunting moose with a 308Win 165gr TSX and deer with a 308Win 135gr TSX which is exactly what the best hunter that I know is doing this year.
If ranges are "short" 200-250 meters, you might as well use an extremely accurate low-recoil cartridge with great killing power.
It's a very logical way of thinking but means that you can't shot a deer or a woodchuck at long distance with your rifle.
For me, 270 WSM is poor man's 270 Weatherby Magnum!
And not everyone agrees with Roy Weatherby...
Alex
since this is a hunting subforum. lets look at it from a hunters perspective. very few hunters shoot beyond 300yrds. most shouldn't be shooting past 100 from what i see at the range. so lets look at the MASSIVE improvement 200fps makes for a rifle zero'd at 200yrds in relation to 300yrd drop.
270win 130gr SP @ 3050 -3.2"
270wsm 130gr SP @ 3250 -5.5"
holy s**t batman! 2.3" flatter! that will make all the difference to johnny alabama in his treestand!
crikey! lets look at the 150gr just to be sure....
250win 150gr SP @ 2850 -7.2"
270wsm 150gr SP @ 3050 -6.2"
praise jebus! the 270wsm is godly in it's new flatness!!!!
The big difference, is that 200fps extends effective hunting range by 50-75 yards!
You get 2000ft-lbs of energy at 350yards instead of 275yards.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If you follow your logic, you'll end up hunting moose with a 308Win 165gr TSX and deer with a 308Win 135gr TSX which is exactly what the best hunter that I know is doing this year.
If ranges are "short" 200-250 meters, you might as well use an extremely accurate low-recoil cartridge with great killing power.
It's a very logical way of thinking but means that you can't shot a deer or a woodchuck at long distance with your rifle.
For me, 270 WSM is poor man's 270 Weatherby Magnum!
And not everyone agrees with Roy Weatherby...
Alex
Ya its 8MM but the only bullets that are easy to find are 200 and 220 grainers. These are available in 30 cal and 338 so what is the advantage of an 8MM?
You're funny. First fps doesn't matter. Then flatter doesn't matter but ft/lbs does? What if someone said that 1700ft/lbs is plenty to kill critters.
Also the 338-06 does what the 325wsm does and there are lots of excellent bullets available in .338. What MASSIVE improvement does the 325 wsm have over the 338-06 at 300 yards? Also if most people shouldn't be shooting past 100 yards then the good old 308 is plenty. Short package and plenty for killing stuff.
Also the 338-06 does what the 325wsm does and there are lots of excellent bullets available in .338. What MASSIVE improvement does the 325 wsm have over the 338-06 at 300 yards? Also if most people shouldn't be shooting past 100 yards then the good old 308 is plenty. Short package and plenty for killing stuff.
since this is a hunting subforum. lets look at it from a hunters perspective. very few hunters shoot beyond 300yrds. most shouldn't be shooting past 100 from what i see at the range. so lets look at the MASSIVE improvement 200fps makes for a rifle zero'd at 200yrds in relation to 300yrd drop.
270win 130gr SP @ 3050 -3.2"
270wsm 130gr SP @ 3250 -5.5"
holy s**t batman! 2.3" flatter! that will make all the difference to johnny alabama in his treestand!
crikey! lets look at the 150gr just to be sure....
250win 150gr SP @ 2850 -7.2"
270wsm 150gr SP @ 3050 -6.2"
praise jebus! the 270wsm is godly in it's new flatness!!!!
325wsm 200gr @ 3000fps -6.8" and 2460ft.lbs @ 300yrds
8x57mauser 200gr @ 2530fps. -10.1" and 1682 @ 300yrds
4.3" of drop? not much difference, until you look at the energy remaining. no doubt the 8x57 is and always will be an excellent hunting cartridge, but how many major rifle manufacturers offer one?
Who chambers a factory .338-06?
Cooper? And.... Derrrrrrp
Funny you mention the .308, what I use for everything
You're missing the point though. The only thing 'different' about the 325wsm is it's an 8mm, and like the rest of the wsm's it offers no real advantage or anything new. But it is different
Cooper? And.... Derrrrrrp
Funny you mention the .308, what I use for everything
You're missing the point though. The only thing 'different' about the 325wsm is it's an 8mm, and like the rest of the wsm's it offers no real advantage or anything new. But it is different
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
That would be 3.3" difference,actually. But hey, who's looking at silly,insignificant numbers anyhow.
Weatherby does, or did not to long ago. You can of course also have one built. The point is that to some people 150 fps is significant. Just because you don't think it is, doesn't mean it isn't and i always find it amusing when people say a few hundred fps mean nothing but they shoot a magnum. What do you need a 325 wsm for anyways?
That would be 3.3" difference,actually. But hey, who's looking at silly,insignificant numbers anyhow.
i'm chalking that up to my blackberry's tiny keypad and my mongoloid-esque deterity
weatherby stopped making a .338-06 a few years ago.
need has nothing to do with it. if it was just need, we'd all be shooting bolt action 30-06's and it would be a very boring world. i bought my 325 because i wanted another .338-06 but couldn't be bothered to to spend all the extra money on a custom, when there was something balistically similar, and equally as quirky being factory made. that and my .308 doesn't qualify for the BC Bison hunt, which i get to partake in this January.
but thanks for proving my point. if magnum speeds aren't needed, then a couple hundred feet per second is totally insignificant
mahony1977
Regular
- Location
- Frelighsburg Qc
Who chambers a factory .338-06?
Cooper? And.... Derrrrrrp
Funny you mention the .308, what I use for everything
You're missing the point though. The only thing 'different' about the 325wsm is it's an 8mm, and like the rest of the wsm's it offers no real advantage or anything new. But it is different
Weatherby offers the ultralight in 338 a square i think
edit just noticed that you schooled me before i even wrote this
mahony1977
Regular
- Location
- Frelighsburg Qc
The RCM's can match standard 300 and 338 WinMag with Hornady Superformance ammo. Of course, it can be found for the 300 and 338 as well, so again they lag behind. I can see those two calibers becoming obsolete quickly.[/QUOTE]
Probably will go the way of the dodo , but you cant say thats not impressive preformance out of a 20''bbl , and if you handload it's no biggie
lets chop 4 '' off a wsm and see whats left
Probably will go the way of the dodo , but you cant say thats not impressive preformance out of a 20''bbl , and if you handload it's no biggie
lets chop 4 '' off a wsm and see whats left
I never said magnum speeds weren't needed. I've been saying the entire time that I think 150fps is a significant improvement of the 270 wsm over the 270 win. I asked you why, if fps and flatter trajectory don't matter, you bought a magnum.
You said you wanted something quirky and something that is similar to the 338-06. So you bought a magnum that does the same as a standard caliber. That's a step backwards if you ask me. The 7 wsm and 300 wsm also do almost the same as the longer magnums so nothing gained here and nothing lost. The 270 wsm improves on the 270 win by 150 fps or more. That's a step forward if you ask me.
To me the only one that is improving on it's sibling is the 270 wsm. It actually gives you another 150fps+ over the 270 win. The 7mm wsm, 300 wsm and 325 wsm don't match or barely match the 7mm RM, 300 win mag and 8mm rem mag respectively and the reason the 8mm bullets never caught on is of course the 338 win mag which is evident when you look at how many bullets are offered for the .338.
I am by no means a speed freak an I really love the slow poke 260 rem. I wish they chambered it in more rifles but the 270 wsm does make sense IMO. The others not so much to me.
You said you wanted something quirky and something that is similar to the 338-06. So you bought a magnum that does the same as a standard caliber. That's a step backwards if you ask me. The 7 wsm and 300 wsm also do almost the same as the longer magnums so nothing gained here and nothing lost. The 270 wsm improves on the 270 win by 150 fps or more. That's a step forward if you ask me.
To me the only one that is improving on it's sibling is the 270 wsm. It actually gives you another 150fps+ over the 270 win. The 7mm wsm, 300 wsm and 325 wsm don't match or barely match the 7mm RM, 300 win mag and 8mm rem mag respectively and the reason the 8mm bullets never caught on is of course the 338 win mag which is evident when you look at how many bullets are offered for the .338.
I am by no means a speed freak an I really love the slow poke 260 rem. I wish they chambered it in more rifles but the 270 wsm does make sense IMO. The others not so much to me.
i'm chalking that up to my blackberry's tiny keypad and my mongoloid-esque deterity
weatherby stopped making a .338-06 a few years ago.
need has nothing to do with it. if it was just need, we'd all be shooting bolt action 30-06's and it would be a very boring world. i bought my 325 because i wanted another .338-06 but couldn't be bothered to to spend all the extra money on a custom, when there was something balistically similar, and equally as quirky being factory made. that and my .308 doesn't qualify for the BC Bison hunt, which i get to partake in this January.
but thanks for proving my point. if magnum speeds aren't needed, then a couple hundred feet per second is totally insignificant
The best WSM is .300wsm if you don't reload and .325wsm if you do. I agree the bullet selection is limited for 8mm but what can't you kill with a 160gr ttsx 180gr or 200gr TSX or 200gr accubond moving at 3000fps +. The 325 offered a good powerfull round in a lighter shorter rifle than other magnums.
I have limitted experience with other magnums but as far as recoil goes. I don't find my .325 with 200gr bullets kicks to much more than my 30/06 with 165gr
A 270 wsm will kill any animal a 270win will. Same with the 7mm and 300wm vs 300wsm. Although not a ballistic match the 325wsm will kill any animal in north america that a .338wm will. Even though the 325 can push a 200gr and 220 gr the same speed or faster as the 338wm and has a higher BC than the .338wm
I have limitted experience with other magnums but as far as recoil goes. I don't find my .325 with 200gr bullets kicks to much more than my 30/06 with 165gr
A 270 wsm will kill any animal a 270win will. Same with the 7mm and 300wm vs 300wsm. Although not a ballistic match the 325wsm will kill any animal in north america that a .338wm will. Even though the 325 can push a 200gr and 220 gr the same speed or faster as the 338wm and has a higher BC than the .338wm
I was comparing the range of loads, for both the 130gr TTSX and the 140gr TSX, so it is fair. With the top load using the 130gr TTSX the wsm has a 49fps advantage, but burns 74gr of powder vs 59gr for the .270 Win. That is absolutely ZERO practical value.
With the top 140gr TSX load the wsm betters the .270 by 75fps. Again, that means nothing in the hunting fields.
I don't have any of the newer manuals for other makes, but only Barnes interest me at this point anyways.
pete dobinson
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Courtenay BC.
The short mags weren't developed to out perform the standard mags in velocity, they were to = the velocity in a shorter handier action. The 284 win was brought out in 1967 to = the performance of the 270 and the 280 which it did, in a shorter handier rifle. Hunters may not notice the difference in accuracy but the F-class circuit seem to think there is, and they seem to prefer short actions. The 308 win is more accurate than a 30-06 on average. I find it interesting that the 284 win ,known as a dead cartridge happens to be NULA'S #1 chambering. I have a 284 win and also have a 7mm wsm that is dead on accurate and it will shoot 140 gr accubonds at close to 3300 fps! Short mags might not be for every one, but I like em! cheers pete
