Flash hider advice / question.

[na1lb0hm]

Are all flash hiders (like atrs eliminator, the flaming pig, etc) that direct the blast away from the shooter designed by default to increase the back pressure in the system? does this just come with the territory of the design of them?

Pt. 2) are there any that, on a longer barrel (+18 inch) will not affect barrel harmonics? anyone actually tried/ tested them?

Okay, I am talking about putting something like this on an XCR (yes, I will loctite everything, there, i said it, let's move on ) with the increased back pressure, could one theoretically adjust the gas block to a lower setting? would there still be increased strain on the system?

Short of getting one of those fantastic little devices designed by suputin in the NEA silent but deadly thread, I'm looking at a way to reduce the noise directed back at me.

 

[Satain]

A flash hidder dosn't increase preasure in any way but instead vents the gas quickly enough to almost eliminate all traces of muzzle flash. Now when you apply a noise direction deviece to the end of any barrel a certain amount of preasure will be bleed back to the opterating system by 1 form or another. Now since you are plaining to place this on a XCR well the best thing I can recommend is to adjust your gas setting on your gas block to prevent over preasure back to your operating sytem. This will allow you to use the muzzle deviece of your choice and at the same time not over preasuring the system.

 

[Clobbersauras]

As Satain pointed out you can't increase pressure with a flash hider or brake. You can increase gas pressure "dwell" time with certain designs (maybe) but you can't increase the pressure. The pressure is a function of the pressure vessel design (barrel) and the cartridge used. Adding a muzzle device to that system won't increase pressure.

I'm sorry Satain, flash suppression isn't achieved by venting gas quickly. It's actually done by slowing and cooling effluent gases or by reducing the formation of certain blast (shock) structures that are formed when you ignite a round. It's not a simple process, I wish!

I think the OP is referring to devices like the Noveske KX3 "Flash Pig" or the Dlask XB1 "Farting Beaver". They can help to improve dwell time, as will some other muzzle devices. I don't really think you have anything to worry about by using them on your 18.5" loctite poster child. Personally I don't think either would look that good on an XCR. I'd just go with a good muzzle brake or flash hider. Check out Dlask or any number of board sponsors for a wide selection.

With regard to your harmonics question, any good flash hider or muzzle brake shouldn't affect accuracy negatively. Some of them may even help improve accuracy, but you need to know what you are looking for. A target rifle is best to realize the differences though, which the XCR is not. Do some more research on the subject, you'll be glad you did.

 

[blaxsun]

...or the Dlask XB1 "Farting Beaver"... I don't really think you have anything to worry about by using them on your 18.5" loctite poster child.

Haha, I hadn't heard that one before. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[blaxsun]

...I'm looking at a way to reduce the noise directed back at me.

A flash hider is probably not necessarily going to reduce the noise for you (this is less of a concern on a rifle length barrel than a short CQB setup); you're probably more looking for something along the lines of the PWS FSC556 flash hider/compensator as a starting point.

 

[Clobbersauras]

Haha, I hadn't heard that one before. Thanks for the chuckle.

Lector coined that term. I really wish I could get an XB1 with a farting beaver logo on it.

The XB1 and KX3 would direct blast away from the shooter, but flash won't necessarily be reduced that much.

 

[greentips]

Are all flash hiders (like atrs eliminator, the flaming pig, etc) that direct the blast away from the shooter designed by default to increase the back pressure in the system? does this just come with the territory of the design of them?

Pt. 2) are there any that, on a longer barrel (+18 inch) will not affect barrel harmonics? anyone actually tried/ tested them?

Okay, I am talking about putting something like this on an XCR (yes, I will loctite everything, there, i said it, let's move on ) with the increased back pressure, could one theoretically adjust the gas block to a lower setting? would there still be increased strain on the system?

Short of getting one of those fantastic little devices designed by suputin in the NEA silent but deadly thread, I'm looking at a way to reduce the noise directed back at me.

I don't know why people are so obssessed with these big bulbs of muzzle devices at the end of their barrels.

If you want a real flashsuppressor, get an original SEI Vortex, PWS Triad, surefire 556 or YHM phantom.

 

[Satain]

I'm sorry Satain, flash suppression isn't achieved by venting gas quickly. It's actually done by slowing and cooling effluent gases or by reducing the formation of certain blast (shock) structures that are formed when you ignite a round. It's not a simple process, I wish!

Wow...
You learn something new every day. As I was all ways understood flash hidder as to be this as stated from Wikipedia.

Flash suppressors reduce, or in some cases eliminate, the flash by rapidly cooling the gases as they leave the end of the barrel. Although the overall amount of burning propellant is unchanged, the density and temperature are greatly reduced, as is the brightness of the flash.

Love the "farting beaver" on my FSN

 

[Clobbersauras]

Wiki basically says the same thing I did. But greatly oversimplifies the whole process. There are some statements that could be misinterpreted in that link as well, you have to be careful with Wiki sometimes.

This link explains the process much better, but really only scratches the surface of the the topic...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_flash

 

[TDC]

I don't know why people are so obssessed with these big bulbs of muzzle devices at the end of their barrels.

If you want a real flashsuppressor, get an original SEI Vortex, PWS Triad, surefire 556 or YHM phantom.

What boggles my mind is why there's such a desire for flash suppressors/hiders when almost no one shoots in the dark or will use their rifles defensively in the dark. A compensator would be a much better option. Improved control and performance while firing is a far better enhancement then the flash suppressor. Then again, you could run a dual use device like the FSC 556, Battle comp, Blackout, or several others out there and get the best of both worlds.

TDC

 

[na1lb0hm]

I don't know why people are so obssessed with these big bulbs of muzzle devices at the end of their barrels.

If you want a real flashsuppressor, get an original SEI Vortex, PWS Triad, surefire 556 or YHM phantom.

What boggles my mind is why there's such a desire for flash suppressors/hiders when almost no one shoots in the dark or will use their rifles defensively in the dark. A compensator would be a much better option. Improved control and performance while firing is a far better enhancement then the flash suppressor. Then again, you could run a dual use device like the FSC 556, Battle comp, Blackout, or several others out there and get the best of both worlds.

TDC

Once again I'm sorry, I was not clear in my question.

I'm not looking for flash suppression. I do not shoot in the dark or dusk, nor do I have any intentions of doing so towards something that will identify my flash and shoot back. There I said it.

I am merely looking for something to direct the amount of noise and concussion away from me. The stock muzzle device on the reason for loctites increased sales in Canada, is terrible (from my experience, which admittedly, is limited) for both noise and concussion towards the shooter and bystanders.

Clobb, dwell time was the phrase I was looking for not, "increase pressure".

So to rephrase the question, do all "bulb style" inherently increase dwell time due to the shape, or is this something built in / purposely applied by the designer?

 

[Kveldulf]

What boggles my mind is why there's such a desire for flash suppressors/hiders when almost no one shoots in the dark or will use their rifles defensively in the dark. A compensator would be a much better option. Improved control and performance while firing is a far better enhancement then the flash suppressor. Then again, you could run a dual use device like the FSC 556, Battle comp, Blackout, or several others out there and get the best of both worlds.

TDC

I'm writing this from a position of profound ignorance, just trying to increase my knowledge. I had the impression from other reading that compensators and, especially, muzzle brakes substantially increase the amount of noise to which the shooter is subject. I also thought a flash suppressor would help direct noise downrange. Any of this true?

 

[greentips]

What boggles my mind is why there's such a desire for flash suppressors/hiders when almost no one shoots in the dark or will use their rifles defensively in the dark. A compensator would be a much better option. Improved control and performance while firing is a far better enhancement then the flash suppressor. Then again, you could run a dual use device like the FSC 556, Battle comp, Blackout, or several others out there and get the best of both worlds.

TDC

Because muzzle flash blocks out sight picture - you cannot shoot what you cannot see. There is no point of shooting faster and making bigger fire balls, if one cannot see the target. The sun does not always shine, and muzzle flash is obvious in a dark day or during the hours of early evening. For those who go shooting after work, you need it.

 

[Clobbersauras]

So to rephrase the question, do all "bulb style" inherently increase dwell time due to the shape, or is this something built in / purposely applied by the designer?

In some cases, like with the Flash Pig and farting beaver, the PWS CQB comp and others, yes, they were designed to increase dwell time.

I'm not sure most designers give dwell time any real thought when making their devices and if there is any, it's unintended.

 

[gushulak]

I don't know why people are so obssessed with these big bulbs of muzzle devices at the end of their barrels.

If you want a real flashsuppressor, get an original SEI Vortex, PWS Triad, surefire 556 or YHM phantom.

I agree with Greentips here. I use a YHM Phantom and have tested it quite a bit at night. It eliminates flash as good as anything else I have tried. Love the YHM Phantom.

 

[na1lb0hm]

GT- think I'm just going the PWS triad route. For the $ , I'm suitably impressed with what I've read online. plus it looks like it blows everything up/forward, not to the sides.

 

[TDC]

I'm writing this from a position of profound ignorance, just trying to increase my knowledge. I had the impression from other reading that compensators and, especially, muzzle brakes substantially increase the amount of noise to which the shooter is subject. I also thought a flash suppressor would help direct noise downrange. Any of this true?

That really depends on the device. The PWS FSC556 for example increases muzzle report by 3dB, hardly anything. For those shooting beside you its a little more pronounced than a factory A2. Other devices such as the Benny Cooley brake increase report by something like 42% which is huge. The increased report is at the muzzle, and has little effect on the perceived report by the shooter.

Because muzzle flash blocks out sight picture - you cannot shoot what you cannot see. There is no point of shooting faster and making bigger fire balls, if one cannot see the target. The sun does not always shine, and muzzle flash is obvious in a dark day or during the hours of early evening. For those who go shooting after work, you need it.

I'm well aware of the perceived gain when running a flash hider, hence why I said the best option is to run a dual purpose device for both compensation and flash suppression. If you're shooting in the dark you should be running a light as well, which negates the ill effects of muzzle flash on sight picture. However, running a light also destroys your natural night vision as does muzzle flash.

TDC

 

[Suputin]

The PWS FSC556 for example increases muzzle report by 3dB, hardly anything. For those shooting beside you its a little more pronounced than a factory A2. Other devices such as the Benny Cooley brake increase report by something like 42% which is huge.

Be careful when mixing units. A 3dB increase represents double the amount of sound. A 10 dB increase represents 10x as much sound. The dB scale is logrythmic.

 

[rescue149]

 

[TDC]

Be careful when mixing units. A 3dB increase represents double the amount of sound. A 10 dB increase represents 10x as much sound. The dB scale is logrythmic.

Duly noted and already taken into account. 3dB is far from severe when compared to other devices. Keep in mind thats measured at the muzzle, not the shooter.

TDC