OK, I'm convinced I NEED a.375H&H but, which one???
- Thread starter hesher66
- Start date
I've been a big fan of the .375 forever (H&H only) and have used it on a ton of game...although most of it was deer, moose, black bear and even a truckload or two of groundhogs. My much-more-limited experience with a .416 Rigby makes me think that it is just a bit more of the same. Not enough of a performance/capability gap to justify owning both of them unless you simply want to. My Rigby (in a Ruger RSM) crapped out on me just before my one-and-only African hunt, and the H&H stepped in and filled the gap nicely on a Cape buff. Now that I'm working on reducing my gun collection to manageable levels, I doubt that I'd ever get another .416 rifle. If I did, it would be to replace the .375 as a do-it-all gun, and I'm just too comfortable with the smaller cartridge to ever do that.
The .458 (Win or Lott) is a big step up, but lacking in versatility. I'll hang onto mine (Win) in case I ever do go back for that elephant, and I'll probably find excuses to use it on other stuff occasionally, but so far it's shot only a crow and a couple of feral cats...all one-shot stops, for what it's worth.
But if you're going to be entirely practical (yeah, right) you have to admit that anything more than the .375H&H is a waste of time, money, lead, brass and powder for almost anybody, almost anytime.
The .458 (Win or Lott) is a big step up, but lacking in versatility. I'll hang onto mine (Win) in case I ever do go back for that elephant, and I'll probably find excuses to use it on other stuff occasionally, but so far it's shot only a crow and a couple of feral cats...all one-shot stops, for what it's worth.
But if you're going to be entirely practical (yeah, right
) you have to admit that anything more than the .375H&H is a waste of time, money, lead, brass and powder for almost anybody, almost anytime.jj[LEFT said:[/LEFT]ohnwm;6315487]
But if you're going to be entirely practical (yeah, right
That"s what I was thinking.
But still want the big ones..
.416 on the way!
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Two more options, the CZ550 comes in a left hand .375 H&H, and the Model 70 has been made in left hand .375 H&H (I don't think this one is currently produced however, may be wrong). The African and .375 Ruger are good guns, and good value. You just won't find ammunition in Botswana or small town Canada. If that's not a concern, and nostalgia / branding doesn't sway you like I (probably a good thing, and this is said in jest the next line explains my preference for the H&H), go for it.
The .375 Ruger has efficiency going for it, and the .375 H&H has magazine capacity and flawless feeding and extraction going for it. With it's heavily tapered case, the H&H comes completely free of the chamber walls the minute the bolt is budged even a millimetre back (such as just opening the bolt handle). The .375 H&H is the only cartridge I've never felt a sticky case in when I worked it up to the nuclear end of loads. Just a few weeks ago in the Limpopo on the RSA / Botswana border I was hunting with my brother in very red dusty bushveld, the red dust found its way into every crevice, including chambers and onto ammunition. The .375 cycled like greased lightening, higher pressure straight wall chamberings there get sticky.
The .375 Ruger has efficiency going for it, and the .375 H&H has magazine capacity and flawless feeding and extraction going for it. With it's heavily tapered case, the H&H comes completely free of the chamber walls the minute the bolt is budged even a millimetre back (such as just opening the bolt handle). The .375 H&H is the only cartridge I've never felt a sticky case in when I worked it up to the nuclear end of loads. Just a few weeks ago in the Limpopo on the RSA / Botswana border I was hunting with my brother in very red dusty bushveld, the red dust found its way into every crevice, including chambers and onto ammunition. The .375 cycled like greased lightening, higher pressure straight wall chamberings there get sticky.
The .375 Ruger will do everything the H&H will do, except provide the nostalgia.
It feeds and extracts perfectly, as it should, since we figured out how to make cartridges like this operate many years ago.
The .375 Ruger is what the H&H would look like, had the H&H been adopted in recent times.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Not always. Mine (camp rifle, with 300gr Hornady factory ammo, not my own rifle) jammed on my second shot on a Cape Buffalo. Probably a fluke but it's more jams than I've had with the 375 H&H and under other circumstances it could have proven to be hazardous to my health. And you know how much you'd miss me if I got stomped.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It'll never feed or extract better than the H&H, and it'll always take up more room in the magazine. Awesome cartridge for North America, not my first choice for the dark continent, my .375's primary playground. It is cheaper as it fits a standard action, but the premium for an H&H isn't too strong.
The H&H is an evolutionary success story: a combination of intended and unintended design features ended up being incredibly successful. It has taken a cornerstone position in the range of cartridge choices with a balance of power, penetration, trajectory, ubiquity, and reliability of function that really isn't rivaled.
I know Gate and I will have to agree to disagree here...
The H&H is an evolutionary success story: a combination of intended and unintended design features ended up being incredibly successful. It has taken a cornerstone position in the range of cartridge choices with a balance of power, penetration, trajectory, ubiquity, and reliability of function that really isn't rivaled.
I know Gate and I will have to agree to disagree here...
Interesting, thanks. I still can't find a LH 375 H&H on the CZ site, if anybody has spotted it or knows who to contact about pricing and availability I would appreciate any tips.
There is quite a difference in magazine capacity between the CZ (5) and the Ruger (3).
Not always. Mine (camp rifle, with 300gr Hornady factory ammo, not my own rifle) jammed on my second shot on a Cape Buffalo. Probably a fluke but it's more jams than I've had with the 375 H&H and under other circumstances it could have proven to be hazardous to my health. And you know how much you'd miss me if I got stomped.
CLearly there was something wrong with the rifle or even operator error.
It'll never feed or extract better than the H&H, and it'll always take up more room in the magazine. Awesome cartridge for North America, not my first choice for the dark continent, my .375's primary playground. It is cheaper as it fits a standard action, but the premium for an H&H isn't too strong.
The H&H is an evolutionary success story: a combination of intended and unintended design features ended up being incredibly successful. It has taken a cornerstone position in the range of cartridge choices with a balance of power, penetration, trajectory, ubiquity, and reliability of function that really isn't rivaled.
I know Gate and I will have to agree to disagree here...
The problem with the "H&H feeds better" argument isn't when we look at the .375 Ruger, it's when we look at ALL the cartridges.
Very few cartridges these days have similar case design to the H&H, but many are similar to the Ruger. Do people have such trouble feeding with their .308's 300WM, 338WM, 300 RUM, 416s, etc etc?
No doubt the H&H case is easy to make feed, but we figured out long ago how to make the rest of these cartridges work, so to blame poor feeding on the .375 Ruger cartridge is a bit of a misnomer.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Talk to Prophet River. That would be my first place to look. They do exist but sometimes the website can be tricky to navigate.
The 375 H&H: the crocodile of sporting cartridges.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Snapshot,
http://www.cz-usa.com/press-releases/132/
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com...-action-walnut-stock-blue-finish-p-28502.html
They're out there, BUM nailed it Clay at Prophet River could almost certainly land you one.
http://www.cz-usa.com/press-releases/132/
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com...-action-walnut-stock-blue-finish-p-28502.html
They're out there, BUM nailed it Clay at Prophet River could almost certainly land you one.
Many of the CZs will actually take 6 down, for an honest 7 shooter. Its surpriseingly easy to shoot a gun dry on buffalo.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
CLearly there was something wrong with the rifle or even operator error.
The problem with the "H&H feeds better" argument isn't when we look at the .375 Ruger, it's when we look at ALL the cartridges.
Very few cartridges these days have similar case design to the H&H, but many are similar to the Ruger. Do people have such trouble feeding with their .308's 300WM, 338WM, 300 RUM, 416s, etc etc?
No doubt the H&H case is easy to make feed, but we figured out long ago how to make the rest of these cartridges work, so to blame poor feeding on the .375 Ruger cartridge is a bit of a misnomer.
I would counter that of all the cartridges today, only a very, very select few are deemed good dangerous game cartridges. Of those select few, even fewer are on the small end of medium bore. The H&H hangs on and thrives due to its attributes, namely its ballistics (which the .375 Ruger squarely meets, even slightly exceeds in certain bullet weights), and its feeding and functional reliability because it is different than almost everything else available- this the Ruger can't match.
You also give up a round in the magazine to go to the Ruger, with no benefits over the H&H to make up for it. I like, and respect the Ruger as much as any other good hunting cartridge I don't own but respect, there's noting 'wrong' with it. There are however disadvantages, and distinct ones, when it's put up beside the cartridge it was created to emulate. We agree 99%- the H&H is ancient, kills big things as well today as it did eons ago, and is an evolution of design that has endured the ages. I just favour the .375 version.
All hail the "Old Crocodile". No other .375 compares.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Knock the belt off a .375 Taylor and you get the .375 Ruger. Nothing new there and no imagination. Just a marketing ploy.
Hmmm.....
.416 RIgby
375 H&H and 375 Ruger (with 375 RUM)
Methinks the case of the RIgby (which you like) is closer in shape to the Ruger than the H&H.
You would also have to enlarge the case.
