Ellwood Epps customer service -- unhappy!

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Harrier .45 said:
For clarification:

All firearms purchased as new items carry a manufacturer's warranty that must be handled by the authorized repair depot. Guns, unlike cell phones, toaster ovens, vacuum cleaners, and the like, are registered to the individual owner. Once a firearm has been registered to one person, the warranty is not transferrable to another buyer unless the distributor permits the firearm to be returned for inspection, and it is found to be un-repairable.

While we most definitely agree with and understand your frustration in this matter, buyers must understand that part of our agreements in place with distributors and manufacturers is that warrantied items must be returned to the authorized depot for assessment. It is then the distributor who determines whether the firearm should be repaired or replaced, and whether they will send the original item back to the manufacturer as a defective product.

We have dealt with these issues on many occasions. As a customer myself, I would certainly be concerned if a defective item could not be repaired or exchanged, but perhaps if you had asked the salesperson with whom you dealt to explain the situation you might have had a better understanding of the problem. We cannot simply exchange new firearms. It is just not that simple. Any firearms dealer will confirm this with regard to new guns only. With used guns, we do offer a 30-day no-questions-asked return policy for defects or problems, but that warranty is offered through our store, and not from the manufacturer.

To the OP: Please contact Kevin at info@ellwoodepps.com, and we will discuss this matter. We can take the gun back into our store and negotiate the shipping to and from Wortner's, which is the authorized S&W warranty depot. If Wortner's and S&W agree that the firearm is beyond repair, we can then provide you with a new model. Otherwise, we will have your firearm repaired as quickly as Wortner's is able.

The suggestions that Ellwood Epps has become 'lazy' or 'does not care about their customers' could not be farther from the truth! We routinely do all that we can -- and in many cases, more than we are permitted to do by our distributors -- to correct issues such as this. I believe you will find many postings on GunNutz confirming the lengths we routinely go to in order to satisfy our customers as we are able.

Of course there will always be those individual who are unsatisfied no matter what efforts we make, but this particular issue is one that has been discussed on many occasions, and is not unique to the firearms industry. Try to exchange a new automobile because of a manufacturer's defect, or try to return opened software with a defect. These are the procedures that the manufacturers and distributors have outlined for retailers such as ourselves, and it is these guidelines that we must follow if we are to continue to carry the products from these companies.
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That has to be the biggest load of horse sh!t I've ever heard. Warranties are transferable, I've dealt with a dozen dealers who have taken firearms back with issues and not one has gawked at warranty issues. The warranty stays with the gun not the owner.

Seems like your return policy is more to insure you keep your money while leaving your customers to deal with the faulty products you sold them.
 
RRCo. said:
(...) and this particular dealer does not inspect for functionality before shipping either.
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That's very likely, since my Marlin 336 SS that I ordered from EPPS arrived with the loading gate permanently blocked by the carrier. Sights were off to the left. Something easy to pick up during the short, initial inspection...that never took place I guess. So, in the end I had to pay for shipping it back to EPPS. It was fixed, but the rifle came back with the scratches on the receiver. Nothing big, but still...not something that I was happy with.
 
Harrier .45 said:
For clarification:

All firearms purchased as new items carry a manufacturer's warranty that must be handled by the authorized repair depot. Guns, unlike cell phones, toaster ovens, vacuum cleaners, and the like, are registered to the individual owner. Once a firearm has been registered to one person, the warranty is not transferrable to another buyer unless the distributor permits the firearm to be returned for inspection, and it is found to be un-repairable.

While we most definitely agree with and understand your frustration in this matter, buyers must understand that part of our agreements in place with distributors and manufacturers is that warrantied items must be returned to the authorized depot for assessment. It is then the distributor who determines whether the firearm should be repaired or replaced, and whether they will send the original item back to the manufacturer as a defective product.

We have dealt with these issues on many occasions. As a customer myself, I would certainly be concerned if a defective item could not be repaired or exchanged, but perhaps if you had asked the salesperson with whom you dealt to explain the situation you might have had a better understanding of the problem. We cannot simply exchange new firearms. It is just not that simple. Any firearms dealer will confirm this with regard to new guns only. With used guns, we do offer a 30-day no-questions-asked return policy for defects or problems, but that warranty is offered through our store, and not from the manufacturer.

To the OP: Please contact Kevin at info@ellwoodepps.com, and we will discuss this matter. We can take the gun back into our store and negotiate the shipping to and from Wortner's, which is the authorized S&W warranty depot. If Wortner's and S&W agree that the firearm is beyond repair, we can then provide you with a new model. Otherwise, we will have your firearm repaired as quickly as Wortner's is able.

The suggestions that Ellwood Epps has become 'lazy' or 'does not care about their customers' could not be farther from the truth! We routinely do all that we can -- and in many cases, more than we are permitted to do by our distributors -- to correct issues such as this. I believe you will find many postings on GunNutz confirming the lengths we routinely go to in order to satisfy our customers as we are able.

Of course there will always be those individual who are unsatisfied no matter what efforts we make, but this particular issue is one that has been discussed on many occasions, and is not unique to the firearms industry. Try to exchange a new automobile because of a manufacturer's defect, or try to return opened software with a defect. These are the procedures that the manufacturers and distributors have outlined for retailers such as ourselves, and it is these guidelines that we must follow if we are to continue to carry the products from these companies.
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This is good to know. The store should be more careful with inspection. They should also suck up the cost. It's simply good business. Now I will not be shopping at Epps.

Dave
 
I don't think I would expect a dealer to test fire every gun they sell- I've done similar QC projects, and it gets time consuming and expensive REALLY quickly, which drives up the prices.

I would expect that if there's a problem with something they ship, that they will deal with it. As a personal example, the last company I worked for, we were manufacturer's reps. for a couple of brands of door hardware. It happened all the time that something would get damaged under warranty. I would call MFG, explain the problem, get an RGA# (returned goods authorization). I would then exchange the faulty part at my cost, and return the faulty part to the MFG at their cost. Customer was happy (typically under an hour dealing with it), as he walked away with a new part. I got a new part from MFG in the next shipment, and the MFG got to deal with the problem part.

Why can't it be the same way for guns? I get that it's more expensive for the MFG, but I don't specifically care about that, I care about keeping my customers happy.
 
Hmmm... I am (was) about to buy an XCR. I was looking at Epps as a natural choice. I am about 2.5 hours drive from there. I know that there have been some issues with the XCR and the likelyhood of requiring service is a bit higher than many other rifles. This thread has certainly caused me to re-think this consideration. If I get an XCR and after a few weeks/months it fails in some way, where does that leave me? Based on the response from Harrier, I'm guessing "up sh!ts crick". What other dealers can I rely on for this purchase and subsequent service that meets my level of satisfaction? From my understanding, Robarms is not the most service oriented company either. What to do???
 
I understand the OP not being happy with the fact that his new gun did not work. As stated by Harrier 45 he is more than capable of sending the firearm back to EPPS who would then send it to Wortners for him. Or, like he was told, he could send it back for warranty directly thus cutting down on some of the time and travel of the gun before he gets it back fixed properly.
Epps is the warranty depot for Remington, Just Right Carbines, Weatherby, and Baikal. Whenever their gunsmiths determine that one of these guns is not fixable under warranty they exchange it.
It is sad that any brand new gun would come from the factory, pass the inspection and test firing and then does not work when it gets into the hands of the customer. I do not think that this is the fault of the store who is selling it, however, because they sell it on good faith that the product is in good working order and is in brand new condition which means that they should not have to worry about inspecting. Also, the customer is protected by the warranty in case something is wrong. If this gun was a firearm that Epps is the warranty center for, they take it back immediately and try to fix it or replace it as stated already above.
I do not see why this is bad of Epps to suggest to a customer the easiest ( to the customer) way to have this warranty sorted out.
As to all the people out there that think that they can do with out stores who is going to import all the guns, where are you going to get ammo, where would you get your reloading components from, what would you do if something went wrong with what you have with no gunsmiths?
I have had four experiences of buying firearms on the exchange and not one of them went well. I learned my lesson from this and will never buy on there again.
 
Thanks to the OP.

As a newbie first time gun buyer - attitude like this from Epps is something that i will avoid.

As someone who works in retail and deals every single day with people who find issues with the stuff they have bought, i can 'almost' sympathise with Epps' policy.

Apart from the fact that if you have sold something defective - it's your job to fix it.

Thanks to all (inlcuding Epps) for the warning - i will reevaluate my first purchase with this in mind.
 
The point is that the warranty shouldn't kick in for this. He ordered and paid for a working, functional product. He didn't receive it. Period.

Glad to hear Epps is doing the right thing. Wonder how many fanboys pop out of the woodwork praising them for doing what they ought to have done in the first place.

P
golgo13 said:
I do not see why this is bad of Epps to suggest to a customer the easiest ( to the customer) way to have this warranty sorted out.
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Too bad the laundry had to be aired on CGN to be corrected to the OP satisfaction. Maybe. I don't think the deal is over yet.

I can't say whether I'll continue to be an Epps customer or not, but after studying this thread, I am concerned about something like this happening again.

Epps would have been better served by Harrier .45 not posting in this thread at all.
 
You whiners can complain and cry all you want.
I have had nothing but excellent and satisfying transactions with all the sales people at Epps for years.
Everything I have purchased has been accurately described, sometimes better than described, shipping is always prompt and packaging has been excellent.
Since I live in BC all purchases have to go through several hands and everything I have bought regardless of how fragile has arrived without problem.
Any new firearms with warranty issues that I have had were sent to their respective warranty centers without involving the dealer and I think thats how it should be since its not their fault if something was not right, they didn't build it, and with the sales volume they have it would be pretty difficult to thoroughly examine everything sold..
As for not dealing there, well it leaves a better selection for me... :D
 
what was that line from the Simpsons, when Lisa met Bill Clinton- Just keep complaining until you get what you want. That's a pretty lousy lesson, well, I'm a pretty lousy president.
 
Give your head a shake - a vendor took enough time to make sure your payment was good, they damned well better stand behind the product. And yes, it IS their fault something is not right because they put that in my hands. They accept the reward in the profits, they share in the risk.

P

Kevan said:
I think thats how it should be since its not their fault if something was not right, they didn't build it, and with the sales volume they have it would be pretty difficult to thoroughly examine everything sold..
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easy said:
Too bad the laundry had to be aired on CGN to be corrected to the OP satisfaction. Maybe. I don't think the deal is over yet.

I can't say whether I'll continue to be an Epps customer or not, but after studying this thread, I am concerned about something like this happening again.

Epps would have been better served by Harrier .45 not posting in this thread at all.
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So by your claim it is fine for all of these forum members to voice their opinions and generate all this negativity toward Ellwood Epps, but it is not in our best interest as a company to explain our policies and procedures so that you may all understand the guidelines under which we operate? How very democratic of you.

My postings were made to inform all of our customers -- and all of those who have voiced their opinions on this matter -- of the processes that are undertaken. You may or may not agree with the statements I have made, and you may or may not wish to argue with the claims made herein (such as warranty transferability, etc) and that is certainly your right.

The policies under which Ellwood Epps conducts its business affairs are as I have outlined. We do take our customer service very seriously, despite several comments to the contrary posted on this board, which is why I responded to the thread in the first place. But unfortunately there will always be areas where the policy does not satisfy the customer's belief that they should be treated in any other fashion.

As posted by the OP, the matter has been settled to his satisfaction.

For those of you who have made a decision whether or not to continue shopping at Ellwood Epps, that decision is yours alone, but I do suggest that you take a look at the number of positive reviews that have been written about us on several other threads on these forums before you allow one incident to be the basis for your judgement.

Or better yet, perhaps you should visit our store or contact us directly and discuss your concerns.

There are always two sides to every story, after all. It is a pity that Easy believes we should not be able to voice our side.
 
At an extreme, I wonder how it would be handled if the gun they sold somehow malfunctioned and caused grievous harm. After all, it's their gun they sold, not the manufacturer's.
 
I am glad the OP is now sorted out. I think it is always better to go back to the store if you have more questions than to start a thread like this, however.
To all those that think that they can make Epps better I suggest to you to get a job there. They are hiring. I am sure that with all your experience with customer care, your perfect record of always looking after every customers needs, and the fact that you know every rule and every policy about how to deal with everything you would make them a great assest and make the place truly fantastic! I would especially want to deal only with you since you are absolutely perfect and than I would never have to worry about things like warranties, defective guns, improper shipping or any other problem that might every occur.
Send Wes your resume right now, and help Epps become trully great again. I know I would shop there more often.
 
Harrier .45, I don't dispute the fact that you should not voice your opinion. I don't doubt your policies either. I understand they are in place for good reason. But in this thread I think you've done yourself more harm than good. I'm very familiar of the quality of service and product you are able to provide. I've always had great service myself, but in this case it took CGN to resolve it. With that, it was too late. It should have been resolved before it made it here. That speaks volumes and causes me concern. Maybe next time "I" may not be so lucky.

I'm so sorry to read these 8 pages ending this way, but in the end one single bad transaction can be detrimental to any business as most everyone will put themselves and their hard earned dollar before taking a chance spending it at your store.

I usually don't fall for internet blather, however I do sympathize with this OP. How much would it have cost to settle with him to his satisfaction before all this transpired? As I see it, postage back to your store and a bit of legwork with the mfg.

All you needed to do instead carrying on with this thread was to post that you will make it right for the buyer immediately. After all it's human nature to err. It's how fast you make it right that makes the difference.
 
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