AR Forgrips and kneeling positon question - options and opinions

Bolivar

Bolivar

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Hey

A friend pointed out that one of the failure points of an AR is the magwell. That is if a bolt fails or a round discharges out of battery or (insert bad sh*t here) the mag well can fail and "burst"

I currently grip the mag well on my 14.5 inch rifle (as shown on my profile pic) but I am thinking I should change this to avoid damage to my digits in the event of a catastrophic failure (stuff happens)

My thought is to either go with a vertical fore grip mounted near the rear of the hand guard (mimicking the magwell grip) or maybe go with an AFV.

Anybody with experience as to what to buy or more importantly what to avoid buying?

Another thought is for the kneeling position where you rest the front rifle on the trigger guard and have the mag outside of your front knee or leg. Is this kinda unsafe from a failure point of view? I am thinking that if vented gasses want to blow the mag out of the gun, having it against my knee is a bad thing.

Am I concerned about nothing or are there other options for stable kneeling position that keeps the magwell away from the body a bit?

I would really appreciate input from those shooters who shoot service conditions (involving kneeling and prone). That is my plan for next year
 
This, though possibly a valid concern, seems to be a far from normal occurance. I've fired tens of thousands of rounds through AR/C7/M16 rifles and have never had anything other than misfires.

I think there are many many other real things for you too worry about.

Lots of people seem to like that retarded "thumb over the top, block as much of your sites as possible" grip, the MagPul AFG and of course the CF has adopted as folding front grip.
 
Petrock said:
This, though possibly a valid concern, seems to be a far from normal occurance. I've fired tens of thousands of rounds through AR/C7/M16 rifles and have never had anything other than misfires.

I think there are many many other real things for you too worry about.

Lots of people seem to like that retarded "thumb over the top, block as much of your sites as possible" grip, the MagPul AFG and of course the CF has adopted as folding front grip.
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I hear what you are saying but then I see this and I start to think, damn that would hurt if I were kneeling and WTF would happen if you were mono-podding on the mag?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI
 
Bolivar said:
I hear what you are saying but then I see this and I start to think, damn that would hurt if I were kneeling and WTF would happen if you were mono-podding on the mag?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI
Click to expand...

The first full minute of that video has several "user error" issues.

As for scaring the piss out of the twit, I don't believe that even with the mag on your leg/thigh/knee/palm of your hand, there would have been any serious damage too the shooter. Some slight cuts or abrasions, maybe, but I doubt it.

This is more in line with why you should wear eye protection, and possibly not reload/shoot while stupid.
 
Bolivar said:
Hey

A friend pointed out that one of the failure points of an AR is the magwell. That is if a bolt fails or a round discharges out of battery or (insert bad sh*t here) the mag well can fail and "burst"

I currently grip the mag well on my 14.5 inch rifle (as shown on my profile pic) but I am thinking I should change this to avoid damage to my digits in the event of a catastrophic failure (stuff happens)

My thought is to either go with a vertical fore grip mounted near the rear of the hand guard (mimicking the magwell grip) or maybe go with an AFV.

Anybody with experience as to what to buy or more importantly what to avoid buying?

Another thought is for the kneeling position where you rest the front rifle on the trigger guard and have the mag outside of your front knee or leg. Is this kinda unsafe from a failure point of view? I am thinking that if vented gasses want to blow the mag out of the gun, having it against my knee is a bad thing.

Am I concerned about nothing or are there other options for stable kneeling position that keeps the magwell away from the body a bit?

I would really appreciate input from those shooters who shoot service conditions (involving kneeling and prone). That is my plan for next year
Click to expand...
If your concerned about it then you already know what to do.

I would suggest looking at the AFG or a VG... IMHO most VG's I've seen are make more or less equally. I would look with one that is not QD, is under $50, and is light weight. You may even consider one of Magpul's VG's.

I personally like a very short VG and do not use it to hold onto my rifle, but rather, to increase the stability of my shooting position and repeatability in the position of my grip.

YMMV
 
No point worry about it, failures are rare and unpredictable, that is the nature of the sport. the only thing you can do is make sure is ammo came from a reliable source and check your rifle for excessive wear or signs for stress failure.
 
Petrock said:
Lots of people seem to like that retarded "thumb over the top, block as much of your sites as possible" grip
Click to expand...

How much of your sights do you use???


You don't sight off the body of the sight. Blocking the bottom inch of AR sights is a complete non-issue. All the ones I'm familiar with are opaque, anyway. Are you actually looking beside the sight, an inch and a half below the aperture? Because that is not how they're intended to be used...

What IS an issue is controlling recoil...for which the thumb-over grip is very useful.

When not actively engaging a target, you should be at high ready anyway, which drops your thumb completely out of the way, whether you have it over the rails or not.

You give up nothing by putting your thumb there, and you gain a bit of recoil control, which is why everyone has started shifting to that grip. It only took 35 years and a couple of popular DVDs to filter in to mass consciousness.
 
IMO there is realy no need at all for a vert. grip.Something as simple as the KAC handstop will do the trick or simply add some grip enhancement(skateboard tape) at your chosen hand position as a reference point. Save the weight and ban the vert. grip....same goes for extra rails that 90% of us don't need.
 
misanthropist said:
How much of your sights do you use???


You don't sight off the body of the sight. Blocking the bottom inch of AR sights is a complete non-issue. All the ones I'm familiar with are opaque, anyway. Are you actually looking beside the sight, an inch and a half below the aperture? Because that is not how they're intended to be used...

What IS an issue is controlling recoil...for which the thumb-over grip is very useful.

When not actively engaging a target, you should be at high ready anyway, which drops your thumb completely out of the way, whether you have it over the rails or not.

You give up nothing by putting your thumb there, and you gain a bit of recoil control, which is why everyone has started shifting to that grip. It only took 35 years and a couple of popular DVDs to filter in to mass consciousness.
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Except when shooting firearms other than the AR/C7/M16 and only when using the irons or optics that ride high enough to clear the thumb. I see twits at the range and on tv all the time with that retarded grip. Must make the sites on a Lee Enfield or SKS really usefull.

Not one of the professionals I know uses that. Not one.
 
heckler said:
IMO there is realy no need at all for a vert. grip.Something as simple as the KAC handstop will do the trick or simply add some grip enhancement(skateboard tape) at your chosen hand position as a reference point. Save the weight and ban the vert. grip....same goes for extra rails that 90% of us don't need.
Click to expand...

Don't go makin' sense now. You'll piss off all those guys who are trying to sell crap to people.
 
Petrock said:
Except when shooting firearms other than the AR/C7/M16 and only when using the irons or optics that ride high enough to clear the thumb. I see twits at the range and on tv all the time with that retarded grip. Must make the sites on a Lee Enfield or SKS really usefull.

Not one of the professionals I know uses that. Not one.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess we know different professionals.

I can definitely say that not one of the professionals I know uses an SKS or an Enfield.

I have noticed ARs seem to be in relatively common professional use, though.
 
heckler said:
IMO there is realy no need at all for a vert. grip.Something as simple as the KAC handstop will do the trick or simply add some grip enhancement(skateboard tape) at your chosen hand position as a reference point. Save the weight and ban the vert. grip....same goes for extra rails that 90% of us don't need.
Click to expand...

But I do need lots of rails space. I have plans, big plans. Lets see what is on the list: VG or AFG or both, light, laser, BUIS, BUSS (back up scope sight), GPS, tactical can opener, Glade Plug In (AA powered), fuzzy dice, Pete Rose bobble head.......am I missing anything :D

I hear what your sayin' Heckler. I am admittedly moving away from the KISS principle a bit. All I can do is try it to see if I like it and if my scores improve. Worse comes to worse I will simply end up selling the stuff on EE.

For now I will just be messing with my Norc. My 20 inch rifle for service will stay "clean" and simple with it's rail free - free float tube.
 
What about the I-pod/I-phone mount....you never know when your gonna have to phone home to explain that your going to be late for supper while cheching your ballistic calculator app.rockin out to some AC/DC tunes in the midst of a CQB course of fire LOL
 
Bolivar said:
I currently grip the mag well on my 14.5 inch rifle (as shown on my profile pic) but I am thinking I should change this to avoid damage to my digits in the event of a catastrophic failure (stuff happens)
Click to expand...

You should change that grip, but not because of any unwarranted fear of hurting your fingers. You have very little recoil control, as well as making it much harder to transition between multiple targets.

Petrock said:
Not one of the professionals I know uses that. Not one.
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And what qualifies one as a 'professional' to you?
 
Lots of documented pics of kabooms that affected the mag and magwell. However most seem to occur with questionable surplus or improperly loaded hand rolled ammo.

I agree with WP that the bigger issue is control of the gun. It's too bad that many mfr's are now making "grip points" on the front of the mag well now-a-days. Leads to bad habits.

The thumb over grip was taught years ago when firing the C1 smg, and I imagine that came from the STEN. It helped control the climb and at night we were taught to point our index finger along the barrel jacket as your finger naturally goes where your eyes are looking.

Whats new is most often old..
 
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heckler said:
What about the I-pod/I-phone mount....you never know when your gonna have to phone home to explain that your going to be late for supper while cheching your ballistic calculator app.rockin out to some AC/DC tunes in the midst of a CQB course of fire LOL
Click to expand...

I-phone. Patooey. I'm a Blackberry guy. Besides, everybody knows your phone gets mounted on the butt stock. :D
 
heckler said:
IMO there is realy no need at all for a vert. grip.Something as simple as the KAC handstop will do the trick or simply add some grip enhancement(skateboard tape) at your chosen hand position as a reference point. Save the weight and ban the vert. grip....same goes for extra rails that 90% of us don't need.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more!
 
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