12.5" 870 Remington Express FRT#?
- Thread starter Buzzballer
- Start date
Their opinion was "otherwise" did not included pistol grips. My take has since been; button or latch to shorten = no, tools = OK (otherwise simply removing your buttstock would apply)
You would have to use your search-fu to find it.
You would have to use your search-fu to find it.
So just to be clear, they basically agreed that a pistol grip shotgun under 26" is non-restricted?
search-fu is gonna have to be strong...I sometimes can't even find posts i made in the last week, imagine my luck finding a thread from years ago made by someone else, for which I dont have any keywords
NO, they say that combo "may" be a handgun.So just to be clear, they basically agreed that a pistol grip shotgun under 26" is non-restricted?
search-fu is gonna have to be strong...I sometimes can't even find posts i made in the last week, imagine my luck finding a thread from years ago made by someone else, for which I dont have any keywords
...and this is what I'm talking about. If a short pump action is a handgun how is a lever action that is marketed as a pistol not? It makes no sense.
Buzzballer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
I agree, that it does make no sense. A letter is a good idea, maybe I will give them a call once the holidays are over.
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the long gun registry is totally done with. What's to stop some one from just putting on a a pistol grip? If you still have an old registration that says it is NR, how will they ever enforce any thing like shortend fire arms? The law is so grey at this point in time that it could be argued ether way. I can't even say this would be illegal since no one really knows?
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the long gun registry is totally done with. What's to stop some one from just putting on a a pistol grip? If you still have an old registration that says it is NR, how will they ever enforce any thing like shortend fire arms? The law is so grey at this point in time that it could be argued ether way. I can't even say this would be illegal since no one really knows?
Sargeant Slaughter
Regular
Here's info from my experience.... If you go restricted with just a pistol grip it will be classified as a restricted PISTOL .....and as someone mentioned earlier it will NEVER go back to non-restricted . If you you go restricted with a folding stock (under 26" overall ) it can go back to non restricted as mine did 'cuz it's still a shotgun ( don't mention the folding stock has a pistol grip on it as that just confuses the hell out of them ) . I had to make several calls to straighten that out . As for the Mare's Leg, it's "less than" and non restricted but we'll have to see if the gendarmes change their little minds .
Sargeant Slaughter
Regular
I didn't make the rules about pistols . I just follow them . My 14" with a folding Remington was classed RESTRICTED (on the day I received the registration) ! The law states " any firearm that has a folding or telescoping stock that can be fired with the stock folded or retracted and is under 26" (660 mm )is a restricted firearm " Part III Canadian Criminal Code sec 84 definition of a restricted firearm . Read it for yourself .
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Buzzballer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
It is pretty clear about making any folders shorter then 26" a restricted. That still does not solve the problem for pistol grips. Remember common sense does not dictate law.
Sargeant Slaughter
Regular
Talk to the RCMP . They tell you when you register a short barreled shotgun with only a pistol grip it WILL be registered RESTRICTED and Never go back to non restricted . My 14 " 870 went back because I had a folder that had a pistol grip and not just a pistol grip. It took me several phone calls to staighten it out . I guess they figure a pistol grip means it's meant to be fired with one hand . I don't know . The mare's leg doesn't follow logic either . In dealing with them for 43 years their decisions have gotten worse as far as logic goes .
The thing is, its not about the pistol grip. pistol grip is just an accessory, and its not even talked about in the regulations that surround the restricted definition. the only thing the law regulates is overall size.
Take for example a shotgun with a full shoulder stock and a 12.5 barrel. Lets say the OAL for this gun is 26.5".
If I was to switch up the shoulder stock for one that is just an inch shorter, bringing the OAL to 25.5"...would it still be non-restricted?? Because when you think about it, thats the exact same question as if i was installing a pistol grip that made it shorter.
My point is that the way you hold a shotgun is nowhere mentionned to be a determining factor of its classification. This is also supported by the fact that you can have a 20" barrel shotgun with a pistol grip still classified as non-restricted.
So "pistol grip" does not mean it becomes a "pistol". If RCMP ruled it was, it is definitely a decision that could be fought in court...but they still get away with it, because they know no one will fight it unless they are caught and brought to trial...
The only thing that matters is OAL. So the question does remain valid. And letters explaining exactly what i just explained should indeed be sent.
Sargeant Slaughter
Regular
I registered an 8.5 inch (Dlask barrel ) 870 and this what the RCMP told me . If you have just a pistol grip on it , it IS a RESTRICTED FIREARM and will NEVER go back to non restricted . I registered it with a short LOP full stock (27.5 inches overall ) and it was deemed a non restricted firearm .The same thing happened with my 14" 870 until I told them that the pistol grip was part of a folding stock . I was able to revert it to non restricted 'cuz I put a full stock back on it . I'm not trying to screw you around . This is straight from the RCMP's mouth . Been there ...done that . Take it or leave it .
I never said it didn't happen to you. I'm simply pointing out how it does not make sense, as the law does not regulate the classification of shotguns base on the way they are held. I think you can agree that my arguments make all the sense in the world.
Just because the RCMP will gladly jump on any occasion to further restrict any firearm does not mean they are in the right. Again, I'm sure you could fight it in court...but as I said, they know oh too well no one will go through all the trouble and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees for simply keeping their shotgun as non-restricted...
So i'll say it again. The sole fact that a pistol grip is installed does NOT make a shotgun restricted. Nowhere does the law say that. There's not even a single mention of the words "pistol grip" in there... and until there is, wether its a pistol grip, a short shoulder stock, or a chocolate-dipped banana thats installed on your shotgun, that is NOT the determining factor for classification.
OAL Vs. Folding/telescoping accessory is the real question, as already explained.
Well see, thats where my question lies. If you read the law, it can be interpreted that the gun only becomes restricted if it is equipped with a folding or telescoping accessory that, when reduced, makes it shorter than 26". BUT, if the gun is under 26" and is not equipped with a folding or telescoping device, like the non-restrcited 25" mares leg for example , then it remains non-restricted.
Read my post #15 again, where I highlighted the parts in the law that are the very basis of this question/interpretation.
