1892 win 44 wcf

dirkdigler

dirkdigler

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Hi
I've inherited my grandfathers Winchester 1892. Its in pretty excellent shape except the my grandfather painted the stock 60 years ago. I would love to shoot this gun however am a bit uneasy about shooting it as it has not been fired for at least 50 years. I intend on bringing it to my local gunsmith to check it over before bringing to the range, but am curious how much it is worth or how much should invest. Not that I have any interest in selling it as its a family heirloom, and looks good in my collection. The serial number begins with 25***.
 
In excellent, original condition it could be worth $2000 or even more if it's a something with collector interest.

With refinished metal or wood, and in poor mechanical condition it might be worth $200 or less.

Need a better description or good pictures to take a guess at value. As for shooting it - if you aren't sure, then have somebody look at it. Again, can't tell from your description if it's safe to shoot or not.
 
With a clean bore and a few drops of oil in the action, these are the slickest old-time rifle you are going to find: entire action is as smooth as butter (not margarine, either: the real thing).

They were designed around the original blackpowder .44-40 cartridge with its loading of 40 grains of Black and a 200-grain LEAD bullet.

I would not want to run modern factory loads through one because the jacketed bullets can be very hard on a soft, old barrel.

Handloading is the way to go here. If you don't want all the crud and bother of Black powder, you can load with 15.2 grains of SR-4759 and duplicate original factory ballistics without the smoke. Do NOT go any higher. Get a bullet mould from Lee Precision and start casting your bullets out of soft lead (soft enough to groove with your thumbnail), then lube them with Lee's Liquid Alox. Messy but very good and you don't need a machine to do it; I'm using a plastic Speer bullet box and a sheet of waxed kitchen paper. Works.

These old critters can be a BALL of fun to shoot.

They are also still Big Medicine for coyotes that like to eat your calves while they are being born...... and one WILL keep the freezer filled for another century. Just a little, small cartridge but it hits like a brick.

This one has 119 years on it now. Get it checked out. If it's okay, treat it right and it will last ANOTHER 119 years. A bit of linseed oil into the wood will toughen that dry old wood, bring it back to its 1893 strength.

How about sharing some nice pics for the rest of us to drool at?

Hope this helps.
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It looks nice from what I can see in the pictures. Looks like the wood was re-varnished but i feared worse when you said it had been painted. How is the bore? Can you see rough spots or pitting? Does the action work smoothly?
 
action is super smooth and there does not appear to be any pitting. I believe my grandfather used a oak coloured varnish I'm sure at the time it was a good idea.
 
If the action locks up good then I'd try to shoot it if it was me. Commercial 44-40 ammo is loaded to fairly low pressure. I wouldn't be too worried about trying some, but if you have any doubt you should have a knowledgeable person look at it first. Reloading with cast bullets is a better long term solution.

You can remove the high gloss in the varnish by rubbing it gently with extra fine steel wool. Be careful you don't rub too long in any one spot and avoid the sharp edges of the wood. This will give a more natural looking matte finish.

Do not try to polish or clean the metal with any sandpaper, steel wool, or abrasives that will mark the existing patina. It is worth more with the patina left as is than it would be if you try to refinish it.
 
And follow Smellie's advice, DO NOT shoot jacketed bullets in that old girl.

I've got an original 86 in .45-90 with little left of its rifling for (I presume) that reason. The previous owner had jacketed ammo he'd had loaded for it and had been shooting through it. By the looks of the way the rifling has been chewed out of it (still shiny when I got it) I reckon that's at least a contributing factor. Anyway I picked it up for cheap for the same reason, to me it's a piece of history and I didn't want to see it get tossed.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
Ya my prev post isn't a critism of JetHunter's, I'm sure a box wouldn't hurt it. Sustained shooting yes.
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You wouldn't get an argument from me. Jacketed bullets are not very freindly on pre-1900 rifling. All the smoothbore MKI/II webleys are a direct result of shooting jacketed bullets and it doesn't take much. But, there is (i think) commercially loaded non-jacketed ammo available and it would be my first choice if i didn't reload.
 
I imagine there is commercially available non-jacketed loads for the .44-40, come to think of it. Now that you mention it, I have several boxes of factory .45 Colt here that have non-jacketed lead bullets. I usually handload so don't think much about the store bought stuff.
 
Well, she sure doesn't look NEW but it would be kinda disappointing if she did: so much more CHARACTER this way. A Very Nice Old Toy...... and YOU get to be her guardian for the next generation. How lucky can some guys get?

A point not well understood. The old-timers knew HOW to make hard steel; your action and the internal parts are proof of that. But they used the softest iron they could get for their barrels. The REASON is that soft metal does not vibrate as much when the rifle is fired, and what vibration does occur is rapidly damped by a soft barrel. They were more ACCURATE with soft barrels and accuracy PAID back in the days when that box of shells cost two days' gross pay. I once knew a man (a genuine decorated WW-1 hero) who started off as a cowhand in Alberta, back in 1907. He earned $18 a month, working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. When he got a job as a Guide for the NWMP, he spent his first MONTH'S pay on the like-brand-new '86 Winchester he showed me.

As to Cowboy loads, it is my understanding (and I could be wrong but then, I handload everything) that soft lead bullets are the thing used there. A lot of Cowboy shooters like to use their originals, so the ammo is not loaded too heavily for the old guns.

You have a very early '92. By the calendar, she's on her third century now. Really something to value. And it's a family piece: there CAN be no price on it.

One important point: be sure to have fun!

Hope this helps.
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smellie said:
Well, she sure doesn't look NEW but it would be kinda disappointing if she did: so much more CHARACTER this way. A Very Nice Old Toy...... and YOU get to be her guardian for the next generation. How lucky can some guys get?

A point not well understood. The old-timers knew HOW to make hard steel; your action and the internal parts are proof of that. But they used the softest iron they could get for their barrels. The REASON is that soft metal does not vibrate as much when the rifle is fired, and what vibration does occur is rapidly damped by a soft barrel. They were more ACCURATE with soft barrels and accuracy PAID back in the days when that box of shells cost two days' gross pay. I once knew a man (a genuine decorated WW-1 hero) who started off as a cowhand in Alberta, back in 1907. He earned $18 a month, working 16 hours a day, 7 days a week. When he got a job as a Guide for the NWMP, he spent his first MONTH'S pay on the like-brand-new '86 Winchester he showed me.

As to Cowboy loads, it is my understanding (and I could be wrong but then, I handload everything) that soft lead bullets are the thing used there. A lot of Cowboy shooters like to use their originals, so the ammo is not loaded too heavily for the old guns.

You have a very early '92. By the calendar, she's on her third century now. Really something to value. And it's a family piece: there CAN be no price on it.

One important point: be sure to have fun!

Hope this helps.
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Softest iron in the barrels? Sorry, the barrel is made from steel and very good steel at that. The whole concept of "soft barrels" is more than a little bit ridiculous. No disrespect intended, Smellie. Winchester barrels from the 1890's are very high quality, not nickel steel like the later smokeless powder production but still very good. Your rifle is perfectly safe with smokeless powder loads and will stand up fine to jacketed bullets( copper is much softer than steel). Any factory load will work fine in your Winnie with no ill effects, they are deliberately loaded down in deference to the strength of the 1873 Winchester action but the 1892 action is much stronger, really a baby 1886.
 
Mike Webb said:
Softest iron in the barrels? Sorry, the barrel is made from steel and very good steel at that. The whole concept of "soft barrels" is more than a little bit ridiculous. No disrespect intended, Smellie. Winchester barrels from the 1890's are very high quality, not nickel steel like the later smokeless powder production but still very good. Your rifle is perfectly safe with smokeless powder loads and will stand up fine to jacketed bullets( copper is much softer than steel). Any factory load will work fine in your Winnie with no ill effects, they are deliberately loaded down in deference to the strength of the 1873 Winchester action but the 1892 action is much stronger, really a baby 1886.
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No argument on the bulk of your post, except to point out that even though copper jackets are softer than steel, they are still much harder than lead bullets. Softer material can still create friction that will wear a harder material, as proved by water jets at high velocity being used to cut steel. Jacketed bullets do wear a barrel faster than a lead bullet under the same conditions. The steel used in the earliest M1892 and 1894 models were designed for lead bullets even though it is very good quality steel. I think Smellie's recommendation to be gentle on the older rifles is far from ridiculous and just good common sense.
 
Yeah, but the water used to cut steel is also loaded with abrasives. I wasn't recommending putting several hundred jacketed rounds through an old timer just suggesting that the OP needn't be fearful of harming his rifle by cranking a few jacketed rounds down the pipe. Factory loads are very mild and unless he is a handloader trying out a family heirloom shouldn't have to require getting lead bullet ammunition produced for it. These old rifles have been fed jacketed ammo since shortly after the turn of the century.
 
my grandfather hunted with that rifle up until at least the late 50's. When did they stop producing blackpowder, or unjacketed cartridges?
 
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