One of the rifles I have is a 270 Browning A bolt with a harmonic balancer. I bought it new out of curiosity and was skeptical about the balancer. I mounted a shepherd scope on it which I really like. I went on the browning web site and dialed the balancer to the ammo specs. I fined tweaked it then let it cool for 10 minutes. With my captain nephew as a witness I went through a box of twenty in groups of three. The first group I thought I had completely missed the target with my second and third round but could not believe it to be possible. I continued to fire in groups of three with five minute intervals. At 100 yards after 20 rounds I had a pattern no bigger than my thumb nail. Neither my nephew or I could believe it and I am sure no one reading this does either. Has anyone else here had similar results with a harmonic equipped Browning especially when it comes to larger calibres? I have a Remington XCR 300 ultra mag that I may change out for a Browning.
Harmonic balancer; voodoo magic or reality?
- Thread starter 270shooter
- Start date
Is a "harmonic balancer," just a fancy name for bedding the rifle?
Warren Page, nine times winner of the US National Match bench rest shooting championship, states this, in his book, The Accurate Rifle.
This is what folows on the next page.
"this pressure will cut the peaks and hollows off the vibrations of a relatively slender barrel and relatively violent cartridge."
Isn't this what a harmonic balancer is supposed to do?
Warren Page, nine times winner of the US National Match bench rest shooting championship, states this, in his book, The Accurate Rifle.
This is what folows on the next page.
"this pressure will cut the peaks and hollows off the vibrations of a relatively slender barrel and relatively violent cartridge."
Isn't this what a harmonic balancer is supposed to do?
Barrel tuners figure more prominently in rimfire shooting because you can't reload the cartridges.
Centerfire guns can tune their loads by adjusting the powder/bullet stuff.
Or am I just stating the obvious?
I would imagine a barrel tuner on a centerfire might be handy if all you shoot is factory loads.
Centerfire guns can tune their loads by adjusting the powder/bullet stuff.
Or am I just stating the obvious?
I would imagine a barrel tuner on a centerfire might be handy if all you shoot is factory loads.
bedding dream?
I had a hazy dream a little while ago about full-length bedding a rifle barrel with silicone. Just the barrel. The action was glass bedded. Is that wierd or what? I woke up thinking I was a genius for coming up with vibration dampening bedding technique. Forgot about it until now. Until I try it, I'll never know...
Certainly not as interesting as some of my other dreams, but then again, vampire ballerinas lose their freak-factor after a while.
I had a hazy dream a little while ago about full-length bedding a rifle barrel with silicone. Just the barrel. The action was glass bedded. Is that wierd or what? I woke up thinking I was a genius for coming up with vibration dampening bedding technique. Forgot about it until now. Until I try it, I'll never know...
Certainly not as interesting as some of my other dreams, but then again, vampire ballerinas lose their freak-factor after a while.
The BOSS system allows you to vary the damping of the barrel's vibration when fired. Not really different then searching for that "perfect "load, just uses a mechanical device to achieve the same end. Tuners do the same type of thing on rimfires. As with all such tools some work better than others. - dan
I don't know about the BOSS, but I know that the adjustable weight on the Ruger Mini14 Target can make a significant difference with some loads. I eventually removed it, shortened the barrel to 18.5" and slipped on one of the Limbsaver rubber donuts. This gizmo is inexpensive, easy to adjust (simply slide it forward and backward along the barrel) and seems to do at least as much as the heavy metal barrel weight. Best of all...no permanent modifications or gunsmithing required. You can experiment and play all you want, yet are always free to go back to square one without penalty.
Weapontech
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- On my way to Hell in a handbasket
Funny, I always thought that harmonic balancers were the manufacturer's afterthought. Meaning, "We thought we built a good rifle, but after testing it, realized it wasn't very accurate".
Funny, I always thought that harmonic balancers were the manufacturer's afterthought. Meaning, "We thought we built a good rifle, but after testing it, realized it wasn't very accurate".
HAHAHA.
"hmmm this car doesn't really go very fast....where's that turbo I had laying around?"
problem solved.
I've never used one, they've always had the voodoo appeal though.
I first heard of dampening barrel harmonics when I read of Soviet snipers attaching a bayonet to their Dragunov rifles.
The theory is sound, it is not voodoo. But as others note, there are other ways to deal with harmonics.
As a side note, when the BOSS system first came out, it claimed to not increase to noise at all (It has a muzzle brake built in).
My cousin was all hot to get one, and I called bullchit on that claim. If it re-directs high velocity gasses sideways and backwards, it damn well will be louder.
Then they stopped claiming no increase in noise to the shooter.
Finally, they warned about an increase in muzzle blast, and offered a version with no brake, just tunable weight.
The theory is sound, it is not voodoo. But as others note, there are other ways to deal with harmonics.
As a side note, when the BOSS system first came out, it claimed to not increase to noise at all (It has a muzzle brake built in).
My cousin was all hot to get one, and I called bullchit on that claim. If it re-directs high velocity gasses sideways and backwards, it damn well will be louder.
Then they stopped claiming no increase in noise to the shooter.
Finally, they warned about an increase in muzzle blast, and offered a version with no brake, just tunable weight.
If it makes you feel any better, I've had the same thoughts on occasion. I never tried it, but revisiting the thought now, I wonder if a thin sheet of Sorbothane might work, assuming that the idea has any merit at all.
Sorbothane isn't cheap, but it can be bought in sheet form from McMaster-Carr in the US. I want to order some 40-count bronze mesh (to make my own patches for my Lewis/Brownells Lead remover) so maybe I'll spring for some Sorbothane while I'm at it. I'm fixing up an old M-S 6.5x54 with a full-length stock so if I have accuracy problems I may give Sorbothane a try. A pressure point at the muzzle is another possibility. (Maybe best not to try and improve on Warren Page!)
From what I've read, the Browning BOSS system and others like it are designed to "manage" the barrel vibrations, more than dampen them. A barrel will exhibit "periodicity" in the vibrations when a round is fired so evening them out or adjusting them I suppose could have a beneficial effect on accuracy. I seem to recall reading somewhere that some folks used to use a heavy rubber band twisted around the barrel, moving it back and forth until accuracy improved. Cheaper than the Sorbothane ring that someone sells.
I just did a Google search and found a listing on Free Patents Online (www.freepatentsonline.com/6167794.html) that reads as follows:
Stuart
Since I am averse to anything hanging on the end of a rifle barrel, I do not care for the "Boss" system.
Ditto for muzzle brakes.
However, I do have a "tuner" on the barrel of my SUHL rimfire, and it does make a difference!
It does not make the rifle louder, since no gases are directed sideways or back, but it adjusts the position of weight in the tuner.
The SUHL starts out with an accuracy advantage, but adding a tuner makes it scary accurate once the "sweet" spot is found.
The principle should apply to a CF rifles as well, I would think.
Regards, Eagleye.
Ditto for muzzle brakes.
However, I do have a "tuner" on the barrel of my SUHL rimfire, and it does make a difference!
It does not make the rifle louder, since no gases are directed sideways or back, but it adjusts the position of weight in the tuner.
The SUHL starts out with an accuracy advantage, but adding a tuner makes it scary accurate once the "sweet" spot is found.
The principle should apply to a CF rifles as well, I would think.
Regards, Eagleye.
Now I want an adjustable bayonet. I suppose you could remove the blade, slot the hilt and put a bolt in it.
It makes sense in my mind, changing the location of the weight at the end of the barrel will change how it moves during recoil, which in turn can change the postion of the barrel as the projectile exits.
Is it a way of fixing a poorly made gun? Sure it could... But it can also be used to tune the barrel to a specific powder quantity and bullet weight to tune in the accuracy.
The harmonics are going to be less of an issue in a heavier thicker bull-barreled rifle, which is probably why you dont see them much in the target/bench types.
If you look at the reviews of the mini 14 vs. the mini 14 target, it sounds like a bit of both happening there, but I think in some (but not all) applications it would be ideal.
Good to hear your feedback on your browning, that says more than internet opinions I guess (mine included).
Is it a way of fixing a poorly made gun? Sure it could... But it can also be used to tune the barrel to a specific powder quantity and bullet weight to tune in the accuracy.
The harmonics are going to be less of an issue in a heavier thicker bull-barreled rifle, which is probably why you dont see them much in the target/bench types.
If you look at the reviews of the mini 14 vs. the mini 14 target, it sounds like a bit of both happening there, but I think in some (but not all) applications it would be ideal.
Good to hear your feedback on your browning, that says more than internet opinions I guess (mine included).
The way I understand it, a harmonic dampener allows you to tune your rifle to any kind of ammo you want to use, rather than trying to find a load that works in your gun and only ever using that load.
Seems like a good idea to me. I am definitely intrigued by the idea, too bad a new gun isn't in the budget any time soon.
Seems like a good idea to me. I am definitely intrigued by the idea, too bad a new gun isn't in the budget any time soon.
Weapontech
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- On my way to Hell in a handbasket
Wait, here's a novel idea......
How about a rifle that is sub-MOA accurate right out of the box, without any fugly gadgets hanging off of it, all for a reasonable price?
Oh wait, sorry...
I also recall seeing some kind of contraption a few years back that was inletted into a forend, which created a front-to-back adjustable pressure point on the underside of the barrel. It's easy enough to duplicate that effect by playing around with the positioning of an adhesive rubber or plastic pad. All in all, whether playing with powder charge, seating depth, bedding or dampening, it's all about making the bullet consistently leave the muzzle at the same harmonic sweet-spot or node, between peak amplitudes in the wave form.
