My Enfields. What do I do with them? - added bore pic

rivetc78

rivetc78

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These are my 3 Enfields.

On Top.
Sporterized No.4 Mk1 1944. I think it is in very good condition. Mk I sight

In the Middle.
1918 SMLE No.1 Mk III. Again sporterized and a little rough. Bridge is intact.

On the Bottom.
1946 No.4 Mk1 (FTR) Good Condition. Needs a good clean :) Mk 3 sight

P1030348.jpg


P1030346.jpg


Rifle on top of Picture. Metal is nice. Brass buttplate is clean and shiny.

1944c.jpg


Rifle in middle. I have never seen so many markings. The Crown w/ C.R.

1918c.jpg


Can't forget the bayonets.
bayo.jpg


I have not shot these. Haven't got around to them.
I appreciate the history these rifles have....but,
I'm not really into them. They are just sitting here.

Do I sell them? Hang on to them?
If I sell, what do I ask for?
Does a Full Wood Mk4 No1 F (FTR) have value?
The SMLE Mk III would be a good project gun.
The Mk 4 No.1 on top is a sweet shorty sporter.

Any idea on pricing would be great. Or which (if) one is a keeper

Thanks
 
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Hey, it is different. It is stamped Mk4 No1 F (FTR).
Says 1946 on one side . There are a couple faint marks. But there is not many marking on this rifle.

If I read it correctly it was made at B.S.A. Guns, Shirley, Birmingham
P1030362.jpg


other side of Band
P1030359.jpg


top of barrel
P1030363.jpg
 
Bolt serial number matches rifle.

This will effect value, headspace (possibly) and whether that cocking piece is correct.

Usually only early No. 4 Mk I rifles had them (old cocking piece), and almost never on the No4 Mk. I*.


I know, eh? Welcome to Lee Enfields. :D
 
Bolt has a 3 stamped on it and the Rifle Serial number starts with a 3.

So it has the correct bolt. If my recently acquired Enfield lore is correct

I was thinking the 1946 could have been a 1945, but your right it does kind of look like a 'bad' 3.
 
If you're selling, i'd probably not pay more than $75-100 for the shortened sporter, maybe 100 for the SMLE (restore would be a BI$#*, looking at $300 in parts to build a $300 frankengun). The FTRd bsa, wrong cocking piece, beat up, i'd go maybe $300-350.
 
What to do with them? Well, first, how are the bores? And check headspace. Then, shoot with them.

The shortenend No4 seems to have tapped holes for the T-01 Weaver scope mount. If that's the case, I'd find that mount and put it on the rifle. You'd then have a bush gun ready for deer season, if the bore is nice and crisp, and the wood seems to be clean, you could have a decent $150 sporter.

The SMLE: Indeed finding parts to "desporterize" is less easy than a few years ago. If the metal is clean and the bore nice, could be a worthy candidate.

The intact No4: I would first check the bedding of the forend, then give the gun a good overall. Cleaning, linseed oil for the wood, then try her out at the range. If decently accurate and again if bore's great, you could have a $350 - $400 gun.

The bayonets: the P1907, how much do they go for these days, around $80 for an ok one? Unsharpened blade a must. The "pig sticker", about $20 maybe?

Thanks for posting the pics!

Lou
 
The rifle's serial number will be stamped on the rear of the bolt handle. The Mk. I cocking piece coulcd have been what was in the bin when the bolt was assembled.
As mentionned, rifle 1 is sported beyond restoration.
Rifle 2 could be restored, but an entire stockset would be needed, along with alll the fittings.
Rifle 3, being in isuue coundition, could bring $300 give or take these days, depending on the details. A matching bolt and crisp bore would make a difference.
 
Very nice, very nice!

What to do?

Get a scope onto the top one, refurb the middle one, clean up and take care of the bottom one.

Then read up on all the different factories and variants since the Lee rifle was introduced in 1888 and start searching out the ones to fill your collection.

In the case of your middle rifle, there are 2 major variants and 6 factories with 7 makers' markings, not to mention commercial contracts (Siam and Iraq, also others), plus War Two production. And it's like that for all of them.

You now have a lifetime hobby, right in front of you!

Yes, we're all nuts here..... but were having a lot of fun!

Enjoy!
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Thanks for the input.
I should get off my butt and at least Clean and Inspect them properly and pop off a few rounds. Who doesn't like the smell of oil and grease and getting some dirty hands :)

Ax.338 said:
Looks like, maybe you mixed up the bolts.
Click to expand...

I will check out the bolts, the 1918 and the 1943 came from the same person. They could have mixed it up.

edit: The bolts do not match on the bottom 2 Rifles. The only 'Matching Numbers' Rifle is the Sporter on Top :)

The old bolt is serial number Z 14580
 
rivetc78 said:
Hey, it is different. It is stamped Mk4 No1 F (FTR).
Says 1946 on one side . There are a couple faint marks. But there is not many marking on this rifle.

If I read it correctly it was made at B.S.A. Guns, Shirley, Birmingham
P1030362.jpg


other side of Band
P1030359.jpg


top of barrel
P1030363.jpg
Click to expand...

Lou/Smellie....isn't this "star" in the last pic from Iraq?......I've seen Identical markings on Iraqi sks's.
Can either of you comment on this stamping?
 
The bolts appear to be mixed up on the bottom two guns. The mk3 in the middle is wearing the bottom guns bolt, and vice versa.... Funny, I didn't even know that was possible.
 
mikeystew said:
The bolts appear to be mixed up on the bottom two guns. The mk3 in the middle is wearing the bottom guns bolt, and vice versa.... Funny, I didn't even know that was possible.
Click to expand...

I checked with my mkIII and mk 1*, it's not possible. That's real strange that your mk III has a mk 1 cocking device and vice versa... Enfields, go figure.
 
I've seen this disscusion on cocking pieces, not only on CGN, but another forum as well. I have a No4 with the old style cocking piece also. It's not numbers matching, but it is for the No4.. It's obvious that some No4s came with the old style, but probably not many.

mikeystew is correct, the No4 and No1 bolts will not interchange.
 
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The actual cocking-pieces don't interchange, either, because the threads are different: BA thread on the Number 4, Enfield on the SMLE.

The flat-sided cocking-piece came in about the middle of World War One for the SMLE because it cost less in materials and was quicker and easier to machine. It worked okay, too, so they didn't replace them all after the War although they did go back to the round cocking-piece because they thought it was better.

So the various Test rifles were made with the old rounded cocking-piece and the Trials SMLE Mark VI is selected as the new rifle and it is called the Number 4 and a bunch are made up for Trials..... and it has the round cocking-piece. So it goes into (somewhat limited, mind you) production as the Rifle Number 4, Mark 1.... with a round cocking-piece. That nice Mister Hitler then decides to start a World War when the ONLY factory that knows ANYTHING about the Number 4 Rifle is being retooled. Finally, Britain decides that it might disturb tea-break, but re-arming might be an idea, what with this uncivilised little blighter dropping bombs in everyone else's petunia patches, so they enter negotiations with Savage to build a whack of Number 4s.... with round cocking-pieces. Nice Mister Hitler and a couple of million heavily-armed friends go touring in Poland, Belgium, Holland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway, Chamberlain's Government resigns, Winston is handed the PM job and the excrement strikes the rotary air-recirculation device. Canada decides to Do Something and so Long Branch is set up at a furious rate and starts cranking out Number 4 Rifles..... with round cocking-pieces. And BSA is told to set up a plant and make the Number 4.... with the round cocking-piece.

And then it is rediscovered that a flat cocking-piece with deep grooves works ALMOST as well, uses about half the steel and is faster to make: orders go out to the plants making the things to stop making the round cocking-piece and make the flat cocking-piece with deep grooves. It actually got to the point that they made flat cocking-pieces which were SLAB-SIDED; this was discovered to be a Big Mistake and so they nearly all were changed out during refits.

And it was the same with barrels, 5 grooves being the ideal but 6, 4, 3 and 2 being manufactured, 2-piece barrels going into production and all the rest.

Hop on over to milsurps dot com, take out a membership and download THE LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE by Major E.G.B. Reynolds. It's a 1960 book but it was written before the Great Shredding Of Documents and the information is ALL there. THEY WERE DESPERATE.

And so here we are, nearly 70 years later, thinking that ALL Number 1s had the rounded cocking-piece and that ALL Number 4s had the slab-side model. Not so, not so: both rifles had BOTH types, depending on where and when they were made, when and how they were refitted.

That said, a proper round cocking-piece on a Shirley Number 4 rifle is well worth remarking.

Hope this helps.
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