.338 Win Mag vs .45-70
- Thread starter philthygeezer
- Start date
I have a M70 sporter in .338 win. Great gun. I assume the 45-70 would be a lever? I prefer bolts in the field, because I find they are easier to take apart, clean, remove crud from the barrel etc. However, I like the way a lever handles. I'd say if you are going to be walking for a week or two in a remote area, go for the bolt action. If you are going to be in a well stocked camp, probably does not matter.
I find the recoil on the .338 managable with 250 gr bullets. Never tried anything heavier. However, there is no getting around the fact it packs a punch. I've never actually shot a 45-70, but I'd have to imagine the recoil would probably less. For cool factor, I'd go with a 45-70, great history, nostalgia. There's just something you have to like about a cartridge that's been around for at least 135 years, was originally designed for black powder and is still be chambered and widely used.
Suppose it boils down to get the gun you like best, for whatever reason.
I find the recoil on the .338 managable with 250 gr bullets. Never tried anything heavier. However, there is no getting around the fact it packs a punch. I've never actually shot a 45-70, but I'd have to imagine the recoil would probably less. For cool factor, I'd go with a 45-70, great history, nostalgia. There's just something you have to like about a cartridge that's been around for at least 135 years, was originally designed for black powder and is still be chambered and widely used.
Suppose it boils down to get the gun you like best, for whatever reason.
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
You looking to pack through dense cover, etc? One time deal, or possibly something you do for a long time? Strictly hunting, or more for defense? All those factors could weigh in. I pack my GG in the bush for work, have packed many different rifles and shotguns for extended hikes (from 5 km to 20 km) through some easy and some real tough terrain, including steep mountains and heavy, thick regen (brush). I find long barrels and anything hanging off the thing (like a bolt handle) does nothing but snag on branches, bang on trees and generally cause a guy a headache.
I know guys who do indeed pack bolt actions and swear by them - I personally prefer the .45-70 GG because I find it carries the best of the various rifles and shotguns I have carried. I could (and really should) get an ATC but boy when you see a grizz within punching distance...something comforting about the .45-70 there. Not that I've had to shoot a bear in self defence, but I have been nose to nose with a few.
The GG is also fast handling - though a bolt is too in the right hands. I can have it ready quickly. I DID have to do a lot of action work on it after I bought it (and yeah it is pre-Remllin) to make it work reliably but it does so now. No jams, it just works. Recoil...with a real healthy load you would notice the recoil. It is substantial. Keep to factory loads and it is comfortable, Trapdoor loads are absolutely pleasant and I can run 100-200 through at the range with no problems, it's just plain fun at that level.
Durability? I have literally tossed my GG into a swamp getting out of helicopters and such, and smacked it against trees, bounced it around in trucks...I've fallen off logs and landed on it. It shows its treatment but it still works and shoots fine. Open iron only (no front sight shroud, it caught on every friggin thing in sight so I tossed it first day out) so dunno really how accurate it is, but I can hit a boiler room sized target every shot at 100. Good enough for my purposes.
At the end of the day, and speaking from experience hiking around with rifles and shotguns since the 80s anyway, this is truly something you have to try out and decide upon by trial and error IF you plan on doing a ton of this stuff.
Your first choice, be it .338 or .45-70, likely won't be your last, if you stick with it.
Whatever you decide there, good luck
I know guys who do indeed pack bolt actions and swear by them - I personally prefer the .45-70 GG because I find it carries the best of the various rifles and shotguns I have carried. I could (and really should) get an ATC but boy when you see a grizz within punching distance...something comforting about the .45-70 there. Not that I've had to shoot a bear in self defence, but I have been nose to nose with a few.
The GG is also fast handling - though a bolt is too in the right hands. I can have it ready quickly. I DID have to do a lot of action work on it after I bought it (and yeah it is pre-Remllin) to make it work reliably but it does so now. No jams, it just works. Recoil...with a real healthy load you would notice the recoil. It is substantial. Keep to factory loads and it is comfortable, Trapdoor loads are absolutely pleasant and I can run 100-200 through at the range with no problems, it's just plain fun at that level.
Durability? I have literally tossed my GG into a swamp getting out of helicopters and such, and smacked it against trees, bounced it around in trucks...I've fallen off logs and landed on it. It shows its treatment but it still works and shoots fine. Open iron only (no front sight shroud, it caught on every friggin thing in sight so I tossed it first day out) so dunno really how accurate it is, but I can hit a boiler room sized target every shot at 100. Good enough for my purposes.
At the end of the day, and speaking from experience hiking around with rifles and shotguns since the 80s anyway, this is truly something you have to try out and decide upon by trial and error IF you plan on doing a ton of this stuff.
Your first choice, be it .338 or .45-70, likely won't be your last, if you stick with it.
Whatever you decide there, good luck
I have a couple of each and i am not biased to one or the other.
However, I feel that irons on a 338 bolt gun would completely negate and advantage it may have had over the 45-70.
The lever gun is handier and quicker to use (my opinion) and with any mild to moderate handloads recoil ranges from very tame to quite manageable
Heavy/hot loads for the 45-70 kick pretty good though. The reason the felt recoil is so much is because of the light weight and short barrel of the GG.
So in short, I choose the 45-70 for the intended purpose, and get a 338 with a good scope for its own purpose.
Have fun
However, I feel that irons on a 338 bolt gun would completely negate and advantage it may have had over the 45-70.
The lever gun is handier and quicker to use (my opinion) and with any mild to moderate handloads recoil ranges from very tame to quite manageable
Heavy/hot loads for the 45-70 kick pretty good though. The reason the felt recoil is so much is because of the light weight and short barrel of the GG.
So in short, I choose the 45-70 for the intended purpose, and get a 338 with a good scope for its own purpose.
Have fun
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
I have both. My GG is a Marlin and works perfectly. My 338 is a 98 variant and also works perfectly. If you were to cut the 338 down to a 20" bbl and short LOP the two would be very equal for carry in the bush. There is no clear winner. You just have to choose if you want a lever or bolt.
I have a Marlin GG and 2 338 bolts, I am in the process of shortening the barrel on one bolt and putting ghost ring sights on it[agonizing over length], the other 338 is scoped with a 2.5x16, my opinion the lever is much quicker and nicer to carry but the 338 has range, as the previous posts imply if there is one rifle that will do it all please do not tell my wife.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I like both calibers, and they'll both work for your purposes.
The real questions are do you strongly prefer one action over the other?
And, are you planning on shooting past 150 yards?
The real questions are do you strongly prefer one action over the other?
And, are you planning on shooting past 150 yards?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A lever action rifle is nicer to carry then a bolt gun, which could be a consideration on your walkabouts. I'm not sure if the flatter trajectory of the .338 would come into play if you stick with irons, it depends on how well you can shoot with them. A good reliable .45/70 loaded up with heavy for caliber hard cast WFNs, produces all the power you could ask for. For the fellow restricted to using factory ammo though, the .338 would be the right choice. As to recoil, both are powerful cartridges and require a competent marksman to be recoil hardened, although to some degree the handloader can load to his comfort level. Having said that, the .45/70 shoots heavier bullets and doesn't have as well a designed stock for recoil management, so it will be more objectionable when loaded hot. IMHO, in general terms the bolt gun is more resilient to hard use and exposure to the elements. A .458 gives you the best of both.
If this gun is intended as a protective companion, the 45-70 can't be beat. In rifles of the same weight recoil would be very comparable IMHO, I own several 45-70s and have owned several 338s. I do believe the bolt 338 manages recoil better than the lever 45-70 due mostly to stock design and weight.
There just is no denying the effectiveness of cutting a nearly 1/2 inch hole in something with a 400+ grn bullet at 1500+ fps. My kinda bush companion, for actual hunting I'd give the edge to the 338, more verstile and better range and it'd be scoped.
There just is no denying the effectiveness of cutting a nearly 1/2 inch hole in something with a 400+ grn bullet at 1500+ fps. My kinda bush companion, for actual hunting I'd give the edge to the 338, more verstile and better range and it'd be scoped.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
Depends on the terrain as others have mentioned...but I really like both. +1 for 45-70 in the real thick stuff !
Some folks have issues racking a magnum length action so if you fall in this group go with a 3006 loaded heavy for the bolt gun. I'd go 4570 because you can load it heavy or soft
I have a 4570 double so I'm a lil biased that way
I have a 4570 double so I'm a lil biased that way
I like the security of the 45-70 in the thick bush, and believe me we got that here in northern B.C. I have as .338 in a Browning bolt and I know when I pull it's down. Guess it's what you are doing. Limited range with the 45-70 but God blessn anything on the receiving end!!!
The 338 WM and 30-06 take the same length action.
Ohhhhh. Makes sense. I just thought the win mags were a magnum length action. Either way I still favour the big slow heavys. When it comes to guns anyway
Only trouble I have with a magnum length action is the pain before I open the bolt.
The .375 H&H magnum is smiles and giggles, but I have to admit the .458 win mag/Lott is pretty taxing.
Then you would like a 338 with 300gr Woodleighs over a 30-06 wouldn't you?
More like a 500-540gr hardcast from a 4570 for bear and 405gr for moose and elk.
Both cartridges have pros and cons and both can kill any animal on the planet better than stones and sharp sticks but personally I'd go with the 4570 and a full length mag tube. The guide guns are nice but I think they'd look better with a full mag tube
