The budget rifle lie and many others
- Thread starter Mikeness
- Start date
I think I figured out your problem right there.
There is a HUUUUGE difference between CHEAP and INEXPENSIVE.
If you take the CHEAP road you will always spend more in the long run.
CHEAP glass
CHEAP barrels
CHEAP triggers
etc...
In the precision game I would put a value of $1500 (before glass) as an "inexpensive" rifle and it only goes up from there.
Hell, I have seen factory barreled actions in stocks that cost more then my trued action with match barrel in a factory stock.......guess which one shot better?
I could not agree more. My last 3 or 4 "projects" come out at about this price point before glass and optic mounting come into the price. I don't think I could be satisfied with a factory barrel again though, once you go match grade you are ruined forever...
To truly have a tack driving system you also need to factor in ammunition. Feeding a high end bench gun winchester grey box will make it seem like a dud too. A precision rifle system is every part working together and tuned for a common goal (including the shooter's skills).
The really bad part is once you finally realize this you will be hopelessly addicted and broke...
.....it's only money
I want the last cheque I ever write to bounce
As long as its not me on the other end.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
A fact many folks overlook when they decide to screw a $400 prefit "match" barrel onto a factory rifle...
How many threads here start with "I'm building this Awsome rifle" then end with "I will learn to reload later"...
If you learn to reload first I find your a lot happier with a factory rifle that needs nothing but a bit of bedding and trigger work... Then when custom anything comes into play its related to filling a specific need rather then "because the gun don't shoot".
Precision is going to cost money, there are no doubts about that.
I love the guys who spend the money to build the rifle right the first time around and then try to feed it cheap components and powder with salvaged range brass and then curse the results on the paper.
Best bang for the buck I have to date is a Savage F-class in 6br topped with a T36 weaver, right about half moa at 500 yards with lapua brass and quality bullets, all in 1600 bucks, for a do it yourselfer I have multiple stevens 200's, shillen barrels, basix triggers and home made BR stocks, less then 1000 before scope, the groups these barrels print on paper........priceless.
1500.oo=low budget entry rifle and from there the sky is the limit, and from my experience with remington, unless they are on sale dirt cheap.....they ain't worth adopting
I love the guys who spend the money to build the rifle right the first time around and then try to feed it cheap components and powder with salvaged range brass and then curse the results on the paper.
Best bang for the buck I have to date is a Savage F-class in 6br topped with a T36 weaver, right about half moa at 500 yards with lapua brass and quality bullets, all in 1600 bucks, for a do it yourselfer I have multiple stevens 200's, shillen barrels, basix triggers and home made BR stocks, less then 1000 before scope, the groups these barrels print on paper........priceless.
1500.oo=low budget entry rifle and from there the sky is the limit, and from my experience with remington, unless they are on sale dirt cheap.....they ain't worth adopting
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have the humiliation of owning a 1.5 MOA Remington 700 Varmint with good optics & I reload my own brass.
One most likely could shoot coyotes & wolves with it until the barrel is burned out & never noticed a 'lack of accuracy.' But that's not why I bought it.
That factory barrel is going to be history by summer's end.
One most likely could shoot coyotes & wolves with it until the barrel is burned out & never noticed a 'lack of accuracy.' But that's not why I bought it.
That factory barrel is going to be history by summer's end.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Indeed words to live by! My Wichita 1375 with it's custom barrel & TR iron peep sights outshoots my Remington factory 700 that has NF glass on top of it.I think I figured out your problem right there.
There is a HUUUUGE difference between CHEAP and INEXPENSIVE.
If you take the CHEAP road you will always spend more in the long run.
CHEAP glass
CHEAP barrels
CHEAP triggers
etc...
In the precision game I would put a value of $1500 (before glass) as an "inexpensive" rifle and it only goes up from there.
Hell, I have seen factory barreled actions in stocks that cost more then my trued action with match barrel in a factory stock.......guess which one shot better?
I've proved this several times from the bench at 300 meters.
paperslayer
Regular
- Location
- Chilliwack
places like this website are great for the exchange of ideas. i have been shooting in benchrest, tr, and even a few f-class matches for more years than i want to admit. i have been a gunsmith and a machinist for most of my working life.
it is always a gamble with a factory gun...some shoot great but most shoot ok and a few are downright aweful. doesn't mean you can't make them work but you need a good gun to be a good shooter - simple. if your gun only shoots 1moa then you will never know if a flyer was from you or the gun.
there is a reason you see very few factory guns in competition because most cannot keep up to a purpose built gun. a proper match barrel is a must. drop in barrels are a waste of money in my opinion. who knows if the chamber and throat are right and headspacing properly is a delicate thing and you should have proper headspace gauges.
aside from the gun, you need to reload with the right type of dies and you need to experiment with a load that works in YOUR gun.
just adding a fancy looking stock and a bipod along with a scope does not make the gun any better than it was befor you spent all your money on the wrong stuff.
lastly, becomning a good shooter takes experience and practice. one group at 100 yards means nothing. being able to know how to repeat that at any distance is the make of a good shooter. too many people think they are instant high master because they can cover a group with a quarter on a calm day at 100 yards.
i think a prospective precision shooter should spend less time looking at screens and more time looking at what real precision shooters work with,
it is always a gamble with a factory gun...some shoot great but most shoot ok and a few are downright aweful. doesn't mean you can't make them work but you need a good gun to be a good shooter - simple. if your gun only shoots 1moa then you will never know if a flyer was from you or the gun.
there is a reason you see very few factory guns in competition because most cannot keep up to a purpose built gun. a proper match barrel is a must. drop in barrels are a waste of money in my opinion. who knows if the chamber and throat are right and headspacing properly is a delicate thing and you should have proper headspace gauges.
aside from the gun, you need to reload with the right type of dies and you need to experiment with a load that works in YOUR gun.
just adding a fancy looking stock and a bipod along with a scope does not make the gun any better than it was befor you spent all your money on the wrong stuff.
lastly, becomning a good shooter takes experience and practice. one group at 100 yards means nothing. being able to know how to repeat that at any distance is the make of a good shooter. too many people think they are instant high master because they can cover a group with a quarter on a calm day at 100 yards.
i think a prospective precision shooter should spend less time looking at screens and more time looking at what real precision shooters work with,
- Location
- Virden, MB
Big eye opener for me was shooting a couple benchrest matches. These guys have rifles, rests and reloading gear that guarantee that as long as they do their part that they can (and have to) shoot 1/4 MOA and better groups all day long. 20 5 shot groups over 2 days all around 1/4 in and better. There is no room for luck. Truly a very frustrating and yet enjoyable experience. I found even with my custom rifle on a Remington action could just not keep up. I may get one or two ok groups a day, but these guys were doing great all day, every round. It definelty pays off to do it right. But at the same time, not everyone can commit that much money to a build, just don't be disapointed when you can get that level of consistency. In the same breathe don't brag that your gun can shoot 1/4 MOA all day just because you did it once.
saskhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sask to B.C.
Its funny when you read posts and discussions like this. It's just my opinion of course but I totally agree that most rifles that guys spend ton's of cash on don't shoot that well without a great hand load. I have bought used guns that didn't shoot that well when I bought them but after a good cleaning and a few hours of hand loading I have some excellent shooters. I think for most of us, a factory rifle can shoot better than most of our talents allow. At least for me I know this is true.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
Actually I can go a step even farther back then hand loading for accuracy... If your vision is handicapped you would be amazed what a pair of prescription glasses can do for your groups
I will add an observation. From the, admittedly, stasticically invalid data set from which I am working I have formed the view that factory rifles may shoot run of the mill loads better than the expensive custom does. I am not sure if that is due to somewhat less precise tolerances in factory guns or not. When a shooter invests the time/skill to establish a custom load for his or her custom gun is really when the return on money invested shows.
2 rifles with glass for me, 9 G notes plus a bit..............
Then there is finding a good load that will shoot in the low .3's at 200 and being able to keep on top of the tune.
Finally there is the weather man that one must beat to still be able to put them 5 shots in the .3's
A task SELDOM done.
Then there is finding a good load that will shoot in the low .3's at 200 and being able to keep on top of the tune.
Finally there is the weather man that one must beat to still be able to put them 5 shots in the .3's
A task SELDOM done.
Lock = 600 to 1800
Stock 600 to 1000
Barrel = 600 to 800 installed. Includes a couple hundred for thread and chamber.
Trigger? Trueing? Bedding? Mounts? Optics?
Screwing a pre-chambered barrel on a Savage, and bedding it into a tupperware stock then setting the trigger might be fun, but its hardly "building". For a $1000 you're lucky to get a good stock and trigger. Sorry.
Stock 600 to 1000
Barrel = 600 to 800 installed. Includes a couple hundred for thread and chamber.
Trigger? Trueing? Bedding? Mounts? Optics?
Screwing a pre-chambered barrel on a Savage, and bedding it into a tupperware stock then setting the trigger might be fun, but its hardly "building". For a $1000 you're lucky to get a good stock and trigger. Sorry.
