norc 45

No disrespect intended to the OP, but I don't understand why people ask for help or opinions and then fail to answer the basic questions that could help solve the problem.

In this case: did the hammer fall immediately when you pulled the trigger? (indicating an ammunition issue), or did the hammer not fall immediately? (indicating a gun issue
 
From the description this doesn't sound like a hang fire to me; it sounds like a fire-control problem, thought the OP hasn't confirmed whether or not he hammer is falling when he pulls the trigger. Assuming defective ammo from Wolf isn't the first thing I would assume. Hang-fires are really a hold-over from the days of black powder cartridges. Very rare with center-fire smokeless powder loadings.

If the sear is moving just enough to rest on the edge of the hammer hooks, it may fire most of the time but on occasion hang there for a few seconds until spring pressure finally overcomes the minimal engagement, pushes the hammer forward and shunts the sear out of the way and fires the gun. A too short sear would cause this and with Norinco QC being what it is, this would not be surprising.

I would strongly suggest getting this thing to a competent smith for a detailed examination and re-fit. Expect to pay for some new parts.

Gunnar would be a good bet.
 
t-star said:
funny how the REST OF THE WORLD teaches TAP , RACK, BANG
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Yes they do but for non life or death sport shooting you should wait.

Am sure the police will not let you off a speeding ticket because the best drivers in the world speed ;)
 
one has NOTHING to do with the other- and most speeders are NOT trained and practised at speed- we are professionals and KNOW what we're doing
 
I habitually tap, rack now...but I haven't had a misfire that wasn't a dummy put into a mag for drill purposes forever...

Gosh I would hate to see the safety nazi's at the range ding me for proper drills now haha.

That being said, I also think this is an ammo problem rather than a gun issue. If the hammer falls..................
 
t-star said:
that's that stupid cfc crap again; if you get a misfire or a hang fire, i was taught that you cycle the slide to the rear, eject the round, check for barrel obstruction, and get back into the game- YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT 30 seconds
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Don't have time? Man when your on the range (for anything but a competition) you have the time. Trust me, that round can still go off whether its in the chamber or not. Do you think they just make this stuff up?
 
wolfyg said:
Don't have time? Man when your on the range (for anything but a competition) you have the time. Trust me, that round can still go off whether its in the chamber or not. Do you think they just make this stuff up?
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sure they do- that particular crap is a left over from the days of black powder and muzzelloaders- when you COULD get a hangfire - how can the round still go off if it's been ejected from the gun?- unless there's an impact with the primer, it won't go off-i've been in this racket since 1970 and have yet to see a round go off of it's own volition- even dumping rounds in a fire gives nothing more than a "woof" - you need the confinements of a chamber to build the pressure to make the round function
 
t-star said:
sure they do- that particular crap is a left over from the days of black powder and muzzelloaders- when you COULD get a hangfire - how can the round still go off if it's been ejected from the gun?- unless there's an impact with the primer, it won't go off-i've been in this racket since 1970 and have yet to see a round go off of it's own volition- even dumping rounds in a fire gives nothing more than a "woof" - you need the confinements of a chamber to build the pressure to make the round function
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I agree that a hang fire is a lot more likely with a black powder but it can still happen with a centerfire cartridge. Here's a good example of a hang fire with a shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjDu5zwa4rM

Not my video so I can't substantiate it, I've never seen one first hand myself but I've heard of them happening. My point is whats the rush?
 
had he been PROPERLY trained, that would have NEVER happened- tap ,rack, bang- for some reason the round didn't EJECT when he racked the action- he then re-cocks it without pulling trigger, causing a set trigger condition- watch it again
you'll see there is a CADENCE to SHOOTING- RACK, TIGGER , BOOM, RACK , TRIGGER, BOOM- RACK TRIGGER CLICK????- DISMOUNT, OPEN THE ACTION, EJECT THE SHELL- that's your IMMEDIATE ACTION- i don't care if it's a shotgun, pistol , or 1919a4- all follow the same rules- this renders the gun safe IMMEDIATELY
 
relliott said:
From the description this doesn't sound like a hang fire to me; it sounds like a fire-control problem, thought the OP hasn't confirmed whether or not he hammer is falling when he pulls the trigger. Assuming defective ammo from Wolf isn't the first thing I would assume. Hang-fires are really a hold-over from the days of black powder cartridges. Very rare with center-fire smokeless powder loadings.

If the sear is moving just enough to rest on the edge of the hammer hooks, it may fire most of the time but on occasion hang there for a few seconds until spring pressure finally overcomes the minimal engagement, pushes the hammer forward and shunts the sear out of the way and fires the gun. A too short sear would cause this and with Norinco QC being what it is, this would not be surprising.

I would strongly suggest getting this thing to a competent smith for a detailed examination and re-fit. Expect to pay for some new parts.

Gunnar would be a good bet.
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The hammer did fall. And yes the gun was properly cleaned. No problem with the ammo,..it worked perfect in my 45. the magazine was also stiff to push in...as well sliding the slide back was very hard.The whole gun seemed to be stiff . Even the blueing is really bad.His gun is junk compared to mine. My Norc Commander works perfect and has NONE of these issues.
 
*MALICE* said:
No disrespect intended to the OP, but I don't understand why people ask for help or opinions and then fail to answer the basic questions that could help solve the problem.

In this case: did the hammer fall immediately when you pulled the trigger? (indicating an ammunition issue), or did the hammer not fall immediately? (indicating a gun issue
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sorry.. had to get to work. Didnt get home till 9pm. And I didnt get a chance to tinker with his gun..he just packed it up and went home. I'll keep you posted on the out come. He is bound and determined to return it....and mabey after this , not even buy anotrher hand gun. It spooked him bad LOL. He knows nothing at all about mechanics and moving parts.
 
lone ranger said:
The hammer did fall. And yes the gun was properly cleaned. No problem with the ammo,..it worked perfect in my 45. the magazine was also stiff to push in...as well sliding the slide back was very hard.The whole gun seemed to be stiff . Even the blueing is really bad.His gun is junk compared to mine. My Norc Commander works perfect and has NONE of these issues.
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Ok next question: did the hammer fall all the way or only to half-####? Reason I ask is, if it fell all the way then there is nothing to stop it from igniting immediately. Hammer hits firing pin...firing pin hits primer...boom, and as you've noted there's nothing wrong with the ammo. If it falls to half-####, then slips off afterwards it can fire. I haven't looked at the guts of a Norc recently but if it is not a captive half-#### this is certainly a possibility. Either way, it's a mechanical problem and needs a qualified person to look at it.

This much trouble with a brand-new gun, I would be looking at point of sale for some satisfaction.
 
wolfyg said:
Valid point, I withdraw the video as it probably wasn't a hang fire.
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Yeah definitely not. There were two issues in this one:
1. Hardware problem. Gun malfunction.
2. Software problem. Brain malfunction. He's just lucky he still HAS a brain, such as it is...
 
relliott said:
Ok next question: did the hammer fall all the way or only to half-####? Reason I ask is, if it fell all the way then there is nothing to stop it from igniting immediately. Hammer hits firing pin...firing pin hits primer...boom, and as you've noted there's nothing wrong with the ammo. If it falls to half-####, then slips off afterwards it can fire. I haven't looked at the guts of a Norc recently but if it is not a captive half-#### this is certainly a possibility. Either way, it's a mechanical problem and needs a qualified person to look at it.

This much trouble with a brand-new gun, I would be looking at point of sale for some satisfaction.
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It looked like the hammer fell all the way.....I wished I could of had the gun in my hands for a longer time and carfully watched what was going on.
And like the other poster said...this gun has alot of issues. Even as an experienced gun owner,..I wouldnt want it. He got a bad one.
 
lone ranger said:
It looked like the hammer fell all the way.....I wished I could of had the gun in my hands for a longer time and carfully watched what was going on.
And like the other poster said...this gun has alot of issues. Even as an experienced gun owner,..I wouldnt want it. He got a bad one.
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Indeed, I wouldn't either.
For future reference: You may be able to recreate the problem in dry-fire. You can also check to see if the half-#### is clearing the sear by holding the hammer back while activating the trigger, then while holding the trigger back, slowly lower the hammer and feel for any bump on the way down. It should travel smoothly through its arc. If it bumps, it's hitting the half-#### and may be hanging up there.
 
well if the gun fired several times without issue, and twice a delayed fire using crappy ammo, how could the gun have problems? if it was the gun, wouldnt it have an issue every time?
 
luke s said:
well if the gun fired several times without issue, and twice a delayed fire using crappy ammo, how could the gun have problems? if it was the gun, wouldnt it have an issue every time?
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We don't know that it was crappy old ammo; we only know that it was Wolf reloaded lead ammo. We also know that it was tried in another gun and functioned properly. Therefore I would not suspect the ammo. Wolf's stuff is typically pretty decent. I have also seen problems like this myself several times over the years and it was never the ammo....

Honestly, other than a few suggestions of what it could be, there is no way to trouble-shoot something like this with any degree of finality without having the gun in your hand and testing it. Often, what a person thinks they saw happen and what actually happened are two different things. Things happen very fast when a pistol cycles and it helps a great deal in trouble-shooting to know what you're looking for and how to test for proper function.
 
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