Can a Glock be a Precision tool?

Any gun, precision or not will only shoot as well as the shooter is capable of shooting. A stock Glock can be a precision pistol, as long as the shooter is a precision shot.

Grip, trigger control, sight alignment. I've seen several shooters that can shoot a 1 inch hole at 20 feet with a Glock 22 gen 3. I've seen several that never will.
 
fenceline said:
Any gun, precision or not will only shoot as well as the shooter is capable of shooting. A stock Glock can be a precision pistol, as long as the shooter is a precision shot.

Grip, trigger control, sight alignment. I've seen several shooters that can shoot a 1 inch hole at 20 feet with a Glock 22 gen 3. I've seen several that never will.
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So all things being equal a stock glock should shoot as precise as a tuned 1911? If the user isnt a factor.
 
GunGuy34 said:
So all things being equal a stock glock should shoot as precise as a tuned 1911? If the user isnt a factor.
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Don't know. Haven't had much experience with 1911s.

Set up each gun to shoot from a secure bench vice with a laser sighting system on each and I'm sure you'll punch single 1 inch holes all day. That is the only way I can see to remove user error/proficiency.

Tuning helps, but a tuned gun in an ameteur's hand will lose every time to a stock gun is a proficient shooters hand.

Your initial question was as to whether or not a Glock can be a precision pistol. I believe it can be in the hands of a skilled shooter. Others started the 1911 comparison saying they prefer them for whatever reason over the Glock. Could be tuning, could be ergonomics, could be skill set as to why it is they have this opinion. Who knows.
 
Are you seriously asking if a stock anything will be as precise as a tuned anything.

Do you really need someone to tell you a tuned glock will be more precise that a stock glock.
GunGuy34 said:
So all things being equal a stock glock should shoot as precise as a tuned 1911? If the user isnt a factor.
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fenceline said:
Don't know. Haven't had much experience with 1911s.

Set up each gun to shoot from a secure bench vice with a laser sighting system on each and I'm sure you'll punch single 1 inch holes all day. That is the only way I can see to remove user error/proficiency.

Tuning helps, but a tuned gun in an ameteur's hand will lose every time to a stock gun is a proficient shooters hand.

Your initial question was as to whether or not a Glock can be a precision pistol. I believe it can be in the hands of a skilled shooter. Others started the 1911 comparison saying they prefer them for whatever reason over the Glock. Could be tuning, could be ergonomics, could be skill set as to why it is they have this opinion. Who knows.
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Reason i asked the question was i have come across many a folk that say glocks are good for what they were meant to be but they are not a precision tool.

I saw some youtube videos of guys shooting glocks pretty dam good.

In the end its just practice that make the precision im thinking.
 
GunGuy34 said:
I wasnt blaming the firearm ...{removed}.... Read my posts, did i ever blame the ...{removed}.... firearm??? .............{removed}........whats your name TDC lets see your ranking.

............{removed}.........
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I'm sorry did I ever say you had blamed the gun? Again, I was referring to your posts and not you personally. If you wish to take it personally that's your problem. By the sounds of it, you are/have which leads me to believe I've hit close to home to arouse such a knee jerk response.

As for ranking, I could care less what someone's rank in a shooting discipline is. Shooting games don't accurately reflect real world defensive shoots which means I don't give them a lot of merit. Speed will always be speed, and its needed and desired by all who run a gun. Extreme accuracy and tuned crap is not. Some aspects of the gaming world carry over, the majority do not.

As for my ego, that's your take on it. I know what I know and I know I'm capable of applying the fundamentals to any system. If my blunt honesty is too much for you I'm sorry. You asked a question, you got an answer.

GunGuy34 said:
Reason i asked the question was i have come across many a folk that say glocks are good for what they were meant to be but they are not a precision tool.

I saw some youtube videos of guys shooting glocks pretty dam good.

In the end its just practice that make the precision im thinking.
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I agree, in that Glocks can be accurate/precision tools and its definitely practice and shooter skill that determines that. As mentioned, the term precision is relatively undefined so its near impossible to label any gun as being capable of precision or not.

TDC
 
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GunGuy34 said:
Im curious. They work better then most.

However, the 1911's i had were much more accurate. At least from me shooting them.

So I ask, can the Glock be precision, got any pictures of your targets to prove it? Im curious.
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My 1911 I feel I am more accurate with but I think it's that way because the 1911 has a better SA trigger and the heavier weight helps tame recoil.
 
1911 triggers are very forgiving due to light weight and short travel. I've found that Glocks can be capable of great accuracy. The biggest hindrance to me is not the trigger but the sights. Long ago I shot a .40 Glock 22 that had a set of Bomars mounted with a good front sight, stock internals (polished) and a stock barrel. I didn't get a chance to bench it but I shot a 2" group @ 20m freestyle. My own personal Glock 17 at the time wore a set of Novak sights and I had no problem achieving good hits on IPSC targets or Poppers out to 50m.
 
GunGuy34 said:
So all things being equal a stock glock should shoot as precise as a tuned 1911? If the user isnt a factor.
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You do realize how close you are coming to disagreeing with the Apostle himself. As an experienced shooter surely you have dismissed any idea that firearms can have a mechancal limitations that may distract from accuracy. You can learn to control a 12# trigger just as effectively as a 3# trigger you just need training from a professional.;)

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
You do realize how close you are coming to disagreeing with the Apostle himself. As an experienced shooter surely you have dismissed any idea that firearms can have a mechancal limitations that may distract from accuracy. You can learn to control a 12# trigger just as effectively as a 3# trigger you just need training from a professional.;)

Take Care

Bob
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Im just playing devils advocate here, not sure who the Apostle is lol.

Just wondering where my limitations end and the guns begin, if there is a such thing.

As i hear time and time again, from various people. Glocks are great for what they were intended, but they are not a precision firearm.

In the hands of Hickok45 they seem pretty precision to me. So is it all hogwash? If the user is not a factor, then Glocks, Berettas, sigs, all service pistols, should be able to group just as good as the 1911. I use the 1911 as an example as it seems to be used alot in precision shooting.
 
I know i need lots of practice, i know i suck, so no need to tell me.

My original question was, can a Glock be a precision firearm? If the user isnt a factor, meaning he is an expert.

Im sick of people saying Glocks are great for what they were meant to be, but they are not a precision firearm.

Take the user out of play all together, if you locked a Glock and a 1911 in a vice, would one outshoot the other?
 
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GunGuy34 said:
I know i need lots of practice, i know i suck, so no need to tell me.

My original question was, can a Glock be a precision firearm? If the user isnt a factor, meaning he is an expert.

Im sick of people saying Glocks are great for what they were meant to be, but they care not a precision firearm.

Take the user out of play all together, if you locked a Glock and a 1911 in a vice, would one outshoot the other?
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If the 1911 has been accurized by a decent plumber or is of any quality the 1911 will win hands down. So would any of the CZ 75/Tanfoglio iterations, the 97B,'sig 226. There is just to much flex in a Glock for it to compete as target pistol. Great combat pistol but not designed as a target gun. The M&P might fair marginally better due to the embedded steel frame that it has. Neither are about to take on a quality built 1911, IMHO.

Take Care

Bob
 
GG34, I don't have any targets to show you because I'm not a Glock owner. Nor do I even like the guns. But there is no doubt that a Glock shoots just fine.

The times I've shot a magazine from them for accuracy I have had no problem emptying the mag in well under a minute for 10 shots. Accuracy them is about the same as my own CZ's and Beretta with a 2.5 to 3 inch group despite my shakey old guy eyes and nerves. There may be the odd flyer but generally I can keep all 10 in 3 inches or less when at 15 yards.

If I slow down even more and really go for bullseye like accuracy I could likely cut this down to around 2 inches or less at 15 yards.

I also shoot a fair amount of double action revolver. I find that if someone can shoot well with the long draw of a DA revolver trigger that they can shoot almost anything well that isn't stupidly heavy or gritty a trigger pull.

Oh, a buddy's slicked up Glock was EASY to put all 10 into 2 inches at 15 yards. He has an IPSC minimum style disconnector for a barely over 5 lb release along with some slicking up to make the trigger travel feel like a slicked up and lightened S&W revolver. And in my book they don't come any nicer.

But as for the stock guns? Yeah, "palm size" and smaller groups at 15 yards with all 10 shot in under a minute is more than possible. If you're not able to do that then it's time to look at the basics for grip, flinch issues and trigger pulling. I've seen good shooters with stock Glocks manage sub 2 inch groups shot with fairly fast fire rates of 10 rounds in about a half minute. So the guns are able to do fairly respectably.
 
GunGuy34 said:
I apologize TDC, but you have a way of getting under peoples skin. My patience was lacking last night.
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No worries. It wasn't me intention to get under your skin.

I see where you're coming from and you're right. The guns are capable. Its the shooter that makes the shot or not.

Bob
A tuned 1911 may print smaller groups but the real question is, how tight of a group do you need? If you're into ipsc idpa or three gun you don't need a laser beam. Fist sized groups are more than adequate. Obviously there may be times where a more precise shot is needed and again, that comes down to the shooter not the gun.

Tdc
 
TDC said:
No worries. It wasn't me intention to get under your skin.

I see where you're coming from and you're right. The guns are capable. Its the shooter that makes the shot or not.

Bob
A tuned 1911 may print smaller groups but the real question is, how tight of a group do you need? If you're into ipsc idpa or three gun you don't need a laser beam. Fist sized groups are more than adequate. Obviously there may be times where a more precise shot is needed and again, that comes down to the shooter not the gun.

Tdc
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True but that isn't the question posed. Mechanically the Glock is not capable of precision shooting, nor was it designed to be. Comparing a Glock to a 1911 is like comparing a farm tractor to a Ferrari. Both are vehicles with four wheels but...

Guys are claiming 2" at 15 yards with a Glock. A well tuned 1911 will do 1/2" 25 yards and an inch at 50. My CZ97B will do 2" at 25 yards from a rest with young eyes looking at the sights.

Take Care

Bob
 
I own quite a few 1911s, CZ, etc pistols. Only had two Glocks, a gen 3 and a gen 4 in 40S&W.

The Glocks (in my hands) shot almost as well as my 1911s. The current one has adjustable sights and a slicked up trigger. I seldom shoot the Glock, so the trigger does not feel natural to me. I am sure that if I shot it as much as a 1911 the group would be about the same.

I test by shooting two-handed at 20 yards. I consider a pistol accurate if I can shoot a group that would fit in the black of a bullseye target. Just about every pistol has been fitted with adjustable sights and a trigger job.

The other part of the equation, and I mention it because I think many shooters don't know or believe this, is that I develop a load for each pistol. My handloads go into tupperware containers, and the label shows the load data and which pistols it is suitable for. If you only have one 9mm, etc, then you only need to develop one load.

I start with a bullet that will probably be good and then load it in 0.3 gr increments with 3 different good powders. Some groups were huge and one or two would shoot tight clusters. Shooters who do not handload and develop their own load are at a big disadvantage, I think.

Here is a Norinco 9mm I bought on EE for $150. I smoothed the sear with some lapping compound and developed a load. I can get a similar group with my Glock 22.
NZ75125.jpg



This is a Para-Ordnance 12-45 I don't think it needed a trigger job or any mechanical tuning. From my limited exposure to a Glock, the Glock will shoot as well, but I have to try harder because I don't care for the mushy trigger.

PARAORDAMMOTEST2.jpg


Edit: just found a Glock group picture.

Glock221.jpg
 
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