Kel-Tech KSG would you buy one?
- Thread starter SaskGun
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manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
if you look at any firearm built for the purpose of taking dangerous game, youll notice they all have robustness, simplicity and utter reliability as a common design element.
i fail to see how plastic guns that break upon first use, built by a company with a track record of shoddy quality control and design even come close to meeting this basic criteria.
are you honestly saying youd stake your life on a KSG?
keep in mind kel tec is a new company, im sure remington, mosssberg, colt, sig etc wernt 100 perfect out of the gate. I think we should encourage a new manufacterer that is taking risks and bringing new products to the table rather the regurgitating the same gun with a different finish or a fiber optic site and branding it as a ground breaking technology.
you mean I'm not supposed to hang six metric f*cktons of sh*t off every spare surface, so that it interferes with function, cycling and loading? How will the bears know to die if I don't have thirty spare shells, ghost ring sights, forward/ side grips and 500 lumens on the gun at all times?
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
at the same time they should be discouraged from foisting pretty, tacticool, but completely untested guns on the market.
i appreciate innovation (especially when it comes to guns: were still using guns that are essentially the same as the ones made a century ago), but not at the cost of a proper product design/testing cycle and quality control.
customers should demand more from a company, and KSG owners should be furious at paying $1000-2000 for something that breaks the first time they take it out -- rather than posting in forums defending the product and trying to justify why its acceptable that these failures are happening.
Personally I sit in about the middle of the two sides arguing in this thread, I am pretty much indifferent to the KSG.
I would not spend the time trying to argue against someone who purchased a rifle and liked it, even if my feelings were that it had some issues and I would not own one.
I am not against various polymer components for some pieces on rifles. However I do prefer as much metal as possible.
Regarding the KSG, I spent a lot of time looking at it and researching everything I could find. I decided against it for myself for two reasons alone:
- The plastic molded components especially along the seams are badly mismatched, this is more of an aesthetic appearance thing, but it makes the rifle look like cheap chinese equipment. I've seen airsoft that looks better molded. However, I have the same complaints about some of the other polymer products on the market, for example the MagPul products like the MBUS (the MOE USA versions!). I have a few sets and will never buy them again because of the terrible molding seams (requiring cleanup before you can use them) and cheap construction (try snapping them a few times without forceably holding the release lever open and the plastic catch will wear down allowing false flipping under high recoil), I am replacing them with MI or Troy or similar aluminum sights which are only ~$50-75 more for a set.
- The design of the KSG has the ejection and feed through the same bottom port which results in a more complex mechanism, guaranteed to have a higher ftf/jam. This is prone to more issues long-term than the simpler mechanism used in pump-action Moss/Rem. While this may be fine for some people who are into short-term ownership/trading/throw-away/disposable income, I purchase all of my rifles for very long-term ownership (my oldest being a 42 year old Cooey 39 I was given when I was a kid). One of my criteria for purchase is will the rifle last through a long shtf/war/depression, and imho I wouldn't take the chance with the KSG.
For the price of the KSG, I would want a lot more gun than what it gives. I can buy a lot of Moss/Rem shotguns or a really nice Moss/Rem for the price of one KSG. If the KSG were ~$400 tax-in, which imho is its actual value, I might consider getting one for fun.
That being said, I would never discourage someone else from buying a KSG. Although if I were asked which shotgun I would recommend to someone, unfortunately this would not be one of them. For those who own and like the rifle, more power to you, enjoy the rifle.
I would not spend the time trying to argue against someone who purchased a rifle and liked it, even if my feelings were that it had some issues and I would not own one.
I am not against various polymer components for some pieces on rifles. However I do prefer as much metal as possible.
Regarding the KSG, I spent a lot of time looking at it and researching everything I could find. I decided against it for myself for two reasons alone:
- The plastic molded components especially along the seams are badly mismatched, this is more of an aesthetic appearance thing, but it makes the rifle look like cheap chinese equipment. I've seen airsoft that looks better molded. However, I have the same complaints about some of the other polymer products on the market, for example the MagPul products like the MBUS (the MOE USA versions!). I have a few sets and will never buy them again because of the terrible molding seams (requiring cleanup before you can use them) and cheap construction (try snapping them a few times without forceably holding the release lever open and the plastic catch will wear down allowing false flipping under high recoil), I am replacing them with MI or Troy or similar aluminum sights which are only ~$50-75 more for a set.
- The design of the KSG has the ejection and feed through the same bottom port which results in a more complex mechanism, guaranteed to have a higher ftf/jam. This is prone to more issues long-term than the simpler mechanism used in pump-action Moss/Rem. While this may be fine for some people who are into short-term ownership/trading/throw-away/disposable income, I purchase all of my rifles for very long-term ownership (my oldest being a 42 year old Cooey 39 I was given when I was a kid). One of my criteria for purchase is will the rifle last through a long shtf/war/depression, and imho I wouldn't take the chance with the KSG.
For the price of the KSG, I would want a lot more gun than what it gives. I can buy a lot of Moss/Rem shotguns or a really nice Moss/Rem for the price of one KSG. If the KSG were ~$400 tax-in, which imho is its actual value, I might consider getting one for fun.
That being said, I would never discourage someone else from buying a KSG. Although if I were asked which shotgun I would recommend to someone, unfortunately this would not be one of them. For those who own and like the rifle, more power to you, enjoy the rifle.
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that's just the thing, they are a ~$500 dollar gun selling for ~$800.
it's all down to price vs value - they do not equal, nor are the related but :
if the price of norc ar's jumped to $1000 would people still buy them?
what about ncstar scopes? if they were priced at $300-$400 would people still gobble them up?
I'm not a snob - but I see this:
when you are looking at sub (insert $$ amount) shotguns and sub (again, insert $$$ amount) rifles they were built to be affordable, that means cutting costs, because lets face it, everyone likes inexpensive stuff, no?
But do you actually get your moneys worth?
but to play devil's advocate:
Eventually you hit the price point where you know you are paying for a someone other than a kindergarten class assembling your firearms, right?
at that point is it alright for a $2000 rifle to become a $2500 rifle?
Am I missing something here? A lot of people are hatting on the KSG because it's plastic, the pump is anyway. Show me a "tactical" shotgun that isn't mostly plastic. Almost all "tactical" guns are made mostly of plastic in an effort to keep them light. No one #####es about putting magpul on an AR, that stuff's plastic right? So why hate on the KSG?
Is it a highend gun, nope, and Kel Tec doesn't try and sell it as one either. Is it over priced, yup. Welcome to buying guns in Canada.
Is it a highend gun, nope, and Kel Tec doesn't try and sell it as one either. Is it over priced, yup. Welcome to buying guns in Canada.
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
because theres a big difference between the non-structural forend grip surface on an 870 being made of plastic, and Kel-Tec making receivers that are hammered by metal bolt carriers, structural parts and picatinny rails out of brittle plastic.
[youtube]cR8VIxhWbzY[/youtube]
- Location
- North Vancouver
There is a company in the process of making an aluminum forend for the KSG. As soon as I get one of them I'll post a review of it.
How many top instructors advocate an KelTec product for any serious use?
Or should I say, how many users have taken a KelTec product to survive through a serious class?
I can tell you the answer, but if you are a KelTec fanboy you will likely not like the answer.
That said, they are great trunk/hobby/range guns.
Or should I say, how many users have taken a KelTec product to survive through a serious class?
I can tell you the answer, but if you are a KelTec fanboy you will likely not like the answer.
That said, they are great trunk/hobby/range guns.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'd have to agree that that's probably my biggest gripe as well. It's not that polymer, ceramics, etc. are problematic in firearms; it's where they're utilized that's key. And from what I've seen with a lot of Kel-Tec products, that isn't necessarily the case.
Aluminum you say.... hmmmm... level of interest increasing....
I drove a Winchester 1300 Defender, Remington 870's, my "lipstick on a pig" 780 Norinco, Mossberg 500 and my new KSG. All have their pluses and minuses - especially the 780, however the KSG is my current favorite...This opinion is based on personal taste and many of the unique design features of the Kel-Tec. Not the least of which are full length barrel in the shortest package possible - over the top load out capacity of the twin tubes - ease of transition from dominant side to support side shooting - completely ambidextrous - the ability to stay up on target for a protracted period of time with considerably less fatigue due to bullpup configuration - easy 2 pin takedown for cleaning - extensive use of polymer components (what can I say, I'm a sucker for a plastic gun).
Like others have mentioned I have no interest in swaying someone choice, my preference is to let folks buy whatever they want and enjoy the sport as opposed to getting in "chest bumping" over which gun is a POS. Seriously... I own a 780 Homeland Security and it ain't exactly a top shelf product, but I still enjoy using the gun. The KSG is a dramatic departure from the normal 12 ga. and some will be more reluctant to accept it based on these differences... and that's cool. Love it, go buy one... hate it, don't... sitting on the fence, find someone that has one and try it then make your choice.
And on a side note, although I am not entirely comfortable with this head down gun down loading technique, I like it's efficiency and will experiment with a more practical method...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA99Eu-L_bU&feature=youtu.be
manbearpig
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Somewhere in the Third World
this has nothing to do with being a 'fudd'. i like the concept, just not the execution.
- Location
- North Vancouver
They will tell the community when they are ready I'm sure. I don't have one yet so no pics. I'll make a thread the minute I've got one though.
I like how it holds more shells...but reloading it is slower, you cannot pop a round quickly into the side of it like you can with a pump/semi...you have to double pump it when you switch barrels...so its "cool" but not for me.
