Why bolts and scopes.

I recently acquired a Norwegian Krag with a Lyman peep sight mounted to the right rear of the receiver. I must agree that the peep does provide a very fast sighting in on a target at modest ranges. I was so impressed that 'am now fitting several other rifles with peeps. The peep does interfere with bolt removal on the Krags if you really need to do a complete cleaning say at the end of the season. Day to day cleaning can be done without removing the bolt. I have also found that one can remove the aperture bar to allow bolt removal and then returned to the peep base without any signifcant loss of accuracy....just record the elevation setting before removal (windage will be unaffected). For longer range shooting and dim light conditions, however, my eyes really benefit from a good scope and the solid mauser type bolt action.
 
I love bolt guns..... But I carry around a BLR in .308 all the time when hunting. Its the perfect gun for me, and has been for the last 4 seasons. Very handy, magazine fed and good 100 yard accuracy with a red dot! Before t he BLR I owned a remington pump carbine in .308 and that was good, but I didn't like it as much as the BLR!!
 
ALBERTA BOY said:
I don't understand the fixation today with bolts and scopes.

I'm about to sell some bolt guns for some good lever-lovin'!
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I'm going the opposite way. I bought a Marlin 375 to try a lever action out, but am finding myself completely cold for it. I can't ever imagine using it to hunt in the places I frequent and am seriously contemplating selling it to finance other toys. I loved the idea of a lever action, but the reality isn't the same for me. If I hunted in heavy bush regularly it might be different, but there isn't much of that in Alberta and I never get close to what there is.

I do agree with you on the aperture sights, though. I hunt every year with my Garand using apertures and I love them.


guntech said:
If you want the best accuracy you get that from a bolt action.
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I think this is a large part of it, with the added features of bolts being stupid simple, tough and reliable.


kinggeorge168 said:
Let me know what kinda bolt guns you want to sell.
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+1, never know when a new addition is going to present itself.


Mark
 
Calum said:
Shoot with both eyes open...this should fix that problem.
Yes I'm a big fan of apature/peep sights over scopes.
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I always have both eyes open.:) Just personal taste against the peeps. Good for paper, but I wouldn't hunt with them.
 
I am glad you discovered the fun in the leaver action. I own a 30-30 myself, as well as bolts. A couple of things.

Open sights. As many have stated here already, the open sights are great, if you have really good eyesight and the light is good. For longer shots, you have to take more time to aim properly because there is less room for error. On my bolt guns, I affix a scope, because they are superior to open sights. Mine have ballistic reticles and windage alignments and make it much quicker to line up the shot on the animal exactly where I want to place it. Can't do that as effectively with irons. But alas, if you bang a scope, you with likely have to re-adjust somewhat to ensure it's accuracy. Irons are much more durable.

Bolt versus Lever. For me, it comes down to pressure and heavier loading - pure and simple. The lever action cannot manage the higher pressures. The newer lever (Marlin, Henry, Rossi, Mossberg) rifles can handle higher pressures, but do not have the bolt restraints for those really heavy loads. The only exception is the Browning lever because it has a rotating bolt with locking lugs. The bolt rifle has an inherently much more stronger action than the comparatively weaker levers (again, other than the Browning BLR series).

With the stronger action comes the benefit of higher pressures, which comes with improved ballistics and hitting power at longer ranges. I have a newer Lee Enfield with the open sights. I love it's accuracy and hitting power versus my 30-30 at 300 yards. My goto however, will be my 30-06 with a scope. For 'yotes, it will be my 243 with a scope as well for those long shots.

Think of it this way, why do you think that most military's in the world in the 1900's adopted bolt action rifles as their mainstay?
 
1) battle has little to do with hunting.

2) peep sights are quicker to target than scopes. They are just as accurate as far as you can see the target. Beyond that distance, I wouldn't want to take the shot anyway.

3) 30 30 seems to have adequate killing power and trajectory to 200 yards. Beyond that, higher pressure, fast movers really don't do much for me although I do own a few. It has claimed millions of game animals and will continue to do so. It's "good enough" and using it enables all the benefits of the lever action.
 
ALBERTA BOY said:
1) battle has little to do with hunting.

2) peep sights are quicker to target than scopes. They are just as accurate as far as you can see the target. Beyond that distance, I wouldn't want to take the shot anyway.

3) 30 30 seems to have adequate killing power and trajectory to 200 yards. Beyond that, higher pressure, fast movers really don't do much for me although I do own a few. It has claimed millions of game animals and will continue to do so. It's "good enough" and using it enables all the benefits of the lever action.
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I'm pretty sure a properly adjusted 1-4x scope (set on 1x) is pretty damn quick. Probably easier to use at first/last light too...
 
I can't shoot with conventional open sights...I have no choice but to either use a scope or a peep..Either that, or I go hungry...
 
Same reason we dont drive carburated 350's, use heroin as a painkiller, or wear leather football helmets.

The times they are a' changin'. Get with it or fall behind.
 
i sold my last peep sighted win about eight years ago. can't see well enought to ensure a kill beond about 75 yrd. i use mostly 2x7, 1.5 x8 or 3x9 set around 5. i'm good to my own personal limite.
 
No, just like you CAN drive a 350 carb job, or play ball with a leather helmet, no ones stopping you. But as far as the trends go nowdays, scopes, and clean barrels are "in", just like in the 80's when Chev Scottsdales with pushbars and Hella lights were "in", or the early-mid 90's when Garth Brooks was cool, its just the way the style of rifles are going now. Bolt actions...well they've always been the obvious winner as far as rifle actions are concerned..

No ones stopping you from shooting irons.
 
Personal preference as much as anything in this case. Either is a classic and more then capable choice.

I personally prefer to use a tried and true semi with outstanding irons... my trusty M1 Garand comes to mind... ;)
 
OP, to address your question directly.........because it is the most accurate and efficient way to send a projectile downrange.
I own something in excess of 60 lever guns and few are more fanatical about them than I am. I load for and shoot almost every one of them. By the same token I own in excess of 60 bolt guns, roughly 3 or 4 of which I actually use to hunt. The monster scopes are not for me, neither are the 8 or 9 lb rifles. I think you got caught up in the "flavor of the week" syndrome and lost sight (pardon the pun) of the effectiveness of a quality 6 1/2 lb bolt gun with a fixed 6X or 2-7 X good quality scope. Even with aging eyes I can be very effective with irons on a lever gun but I also realize that I'm more effective with a good low mounted, moderate powered scope on a bolt gun.
As far as being a better hunter by using a lever and the limitations that come with irons or appatures, well I am also an accomplished bow hunter so I don't have to prove I'm a better hunter because I can do it with turn of the LAST century equipment.

I also wish to add this, I think you are generalizing a bit much. I have levers that weigh as little as 5 1/2 lbs (Win 92 in 44 mag) but I also have levers that weigh more than a heavy barrelled varmint rig with a 25 X target scope (Win 1876 with 28" barrel in 45-60 has got to weigh 11 or 12 lbs). Neither one of which is any faster or better in any way than my 350 RM in a Rem Mod 7 with Kevlar stock and Leupold 1.5-5 Vari X III that weighs about 6.5 lbs. It also has the modern advantages of a recoil pad and Magna-porting. It is easily capable of taking game at 50 feet to 300 mtrs and farther. It shoulders just as fast, points just as well and hits harder than any lever I own.
 
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I still like to traipse around with a Marlin or Winchester lever now and again. But when I get serious about filling the freezer, it's time for a scoped bolt rifle. I don't like scopes on my levers so they get parked when the light is dim. I've taken quite a few moose at first and last legal light. Here in BC that's one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset. A young bull moose, 250 yards across an alfalfa field standing against the bush in the last fleeting minutes of light is impossible for me without a scope. Or that big whitetail buck sneaking out of the oats and back into the bush when stars are just starting to fade in the pre-dawn, and the hoarfrost is beginning to glisten...:cool:
 
Keep in mind there is a variety of iron sights too. I have 2 very old rifles that have tang sights and I can do more with those than anything other than a scope. Then again my eyes are 62yrs old. Good glass puts meat in the freezer no doubt and a good bolt gun is reliable as sin but its fun to shoot a levergun with a tang site too. May put one on my old Marlin 336SC 35Rem. My eyes like the long distance between the tang and front site but I just cant seem to get the hang of receiver sights at all.
 
archie_james_c said:
No, just like you CAN drive a 350 carb job, or play ball with a leather helmet, no ones stopping you. But as far as the trends go nowdays, scopes, and clean barrels are "in", just like in the 80's when Chev Scottsdales with pushbars and Hella lights were "in", or the early-mid 90's when Garth Brooks was cool, its just the way the style of rifles are going now. Bolt actions...well they've always been the obvious winner as far as rifle actions are concerned..

No ones stopping you from shooting irons.
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Chris Gaines...now that was a rocker.

Why a 30-30?, millions of critters been taken by a

Blackpowder, or
Bow, or
Spear, or
Board with a nail in it, or
Rock

It's a preference thing. We don't need to justify, its just how we roll.
 
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