Thoughts on guns, bear, and everyone surviving the bush.

Ardent

Ardent

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Northern BC, Coastal BC, or Africa. Depends on the
I spend more time in bear country, in the bush, than I do out as I work 15 days on, 13 days off in prime Grizzly country. Black bears abound of course as well.

Typically, we carry 12 gauges, stoked with slugs. Recently, I shot a healthy boar with a slug at close range, black bear on my spring tag. I had wanted to see what a slug hit to the vitals placed as perfectly as I can with a smoothbore would have for effect, and since we can't bait, getting close enough to achieve that on a boar took some doing. But, it came together one day, just the right wind, and a busy boar rooting. I was using a "tactical" smoothbore I was testing, only 26" OAL (the Keltec KSG) and given the shot placement I wanted, it was a lot like bowhunting stalking I imagine. I got extremely close, aimed for what I hoped would be the "perfect" hit on a alert bear, to see how much medicine a 1oz 12ga magnum slug really is.

It wasn't that much. In hunting terms, it worked. Bear was down within 30 yards, and 30 seconds. From a defensive point of view, that's atrocious! I put far more stock in bearspray than guns- however I still want that gun at hand. In my line of work we typically can't carry bearspray anyway as it's scarier to us than the bears. So as I head on a Grizzly hunt in a couple weeks, I'll pack spray as well as my rifle. The rifle, my rather storied .375, will be for when I'm predating, but the spray if I'm predated upon.

Borrowed the shot placement pic from AfricaHunting, and where the slug hit the bear- close to the mark. I would have liked an inch further forward, but I had a slight quartering angle and it tore the heart. A lot better than you'll get in a defensive situation, that's for sure. Imagine if it took him 30 seconds to be truly done, and his adrenaline wasn't even truly acting as if he were attacking, with a good hit what it would take with defensive shooting on our part. We'd likely be dead before the bear, even with decent hits. The only way to stop a bear with a gun is brain, or spine- those are impossibly hard shots under pressure of attack. Spray works remarkably well and is lighter, and smaller for those who come out for the weekend. That said, spray won't fill the pot if need be, nor is it as solid as lead. My point is we put a lot of stock, and too much thought into guns- it's what we do here. :)

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Yep you just can't drop it with anything less than a hit to the central nervous system or a whole lot of bone, doesn't really matter what number is on your barrel or how much your bullets cost.
Hope I never have to experience it.
 
If op can try bear spray someday and be able to tell the difference between shot gun and bear spray,that would be very valuable.

so far I have only known that two hikers got killed by grizzlies after using the magic bear spray.
 
the problem with spray is your assuming that

1)the now in pain bear who was charging you is going to turn around and run away not continue after you now even more angry then before with just a little less vision

2)that the spray is only going to hit the bear. i have been hit with bear spray. (just some on the wind. a scout i was camping with was fooling around with a can and set it off) and it was not fun i could not see and breathing was more of a burning than anything else

bear spray also has a very limmited range. at least with a gun you know whos getting the bad part.
 
Another fact is some bears LIKE the taste of the bear spray, you can look up videos of them chewing on cans of it suckling the juice out.

For that very reason I wouldn't even consider relying on it and pack a mosin nagant with the bayonet ALWAYS deployed.

Something to think about.
 
There is a reason why up north outside of towns it is effectivley mandatory to carry a firearm.

Bear spray simply deters bears in some situations. It is in no way is capable of stopping a bear from doing something it feels the need to.

Yes it is true that in many instances a firearm cannot actually stop a bear in its tracks with one shot, but on the flip side a properly placed shot or multiple shots can in many other instances put a bear down very quickly.

The other thing I like about firearms in encounters with bears is that they can also serve as a deterant. What I mean is that simply the noise from discharging a firearms will scare most bears away. Unlike bear spray if the attempt to deter does not work you still have viable options and more options is always good.

I would also like to point out that your hunting situation would be different than a situation in which you were defending your life. You placed one carefully aimed shot into the vital organs. Personally if I had a bear charging me I would be emptying my shotgun into the bear as quickly as I could without severly hurting accuracy. Now I realize bears can come at you pretty quick but you should in most situations be able to get a couple shots off. Even if you got one slug in the vitals and the bear takes 30 seconds to go down keep in mind the bear does not have a gun and would probably need at least a couple minutes to maul you to death, lots of people survive being mauled, even by grizzlies.

Anyway I could go on but my point is when it comes down to it I would take a gun over bear spray any day of the week.
 
The advantage of firearms over bear spray is that they still work in the wind and the rain. You're much more likely to surprise a bear with the wind in your face, so all that lovely spray will be coming back at you, and I can't see you being able to maneuover around to an upwind position.

You also have to make a disctinction between bear species; grizzly attacks are almost always temper/territorial, so more likely to be a flat out charge. Black bear attacks are almost always predatory, and more apt to be a sneak attack.

It might have been more informative if you could have taken a frontal shot on your bear, which is likely what you'll get in a defensive situation. The reaction might have been a little different. You probably won't get a broadside shot unless you're trying to shoot a bear off of someone else. In that case I would have aimed a little higher and farther forward, to break the shoulders or take out the spine.
 
That's not a lot of damage for being a slug.

I shot my first Black bear last fall, 1st shot was in the forward shoulder (.270 130 grain) blew the shoulder right out and got the lungs.

Bear was still trying to get away so another one in the spine sealed the deal, dark was coming and I really didn't feel like tracking a bear after dark!


This was out of a tree stand and the bear was relaxed so an enraged bear is a hard thing to stop dead in it's tracks I would say.

Best to avoid that situation if at all possible!
 
In a defensive shooting scenario against a large dangerous animal, a chest shot is a poor choice regardless of the gun carried. The point of shooting is to stop the animal's forward progression, thus you must break his engine (brain or spine) or his transmission (shoulders and hips).
 
I carried spray and a gun, if there was 2 of us we would carry spray each and me with the gun, plan was spray to deter the bear and gun for backup. All depends on the situation.
 
Spray is well proven to be superior to a gun in most defensive situations with bears. I prefer to carry a gun when I can, but I know that spray works. I haven't thought much about the hazards of flying with bear spray on board, will need to take better precautions for my next wilderness flight.
 
Cranky Pants said:
That's not a lot of damage for being a slug.

I shot my first Black bear last fall, 1st shot was in the forward shoulder (.270 130 grain) blew the shoulder right out and got the lungs.

Bear was still trying to get away so another one in the spine sealed the deal, dark was coming and I really didn't feel like tracking a bear after dark!


This was out of a tree stand and the bear was relaxed so an enraged bear is a hard thing to stop dead in it's tracks I would say.

Best to avoid that situation if at all possible!
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The exit was more impressive, but wasn't as clean of pic of shot placement. Damage was extensive, and still as you saw doesn't mean "done right now". :) Boomer knows his stuff and mentioned CNS hits only for defensive situations, very few are capable of making those in a surprise situation- even the best.
 
Grove said:
Another fact is some bears LIKE the taste of the bear spray, you can look up videos of them chewing on cans of it suckling the juice out.

For that very reason I wouldn't even consider relying on it and pack a mosin nagant with the bayonet ALWAYS deployed.

Something to think about.
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Amusing, and not true- try spraying a bear with it and see what happens. It works extremely well. Even if you can find a video of a bear eating it, you might eat nuclear hot-hot sauce, but you're not about to put I up your nose and spray it in your eyes.
 
Bears will usually move away from pain. While nailing the CNS on a charging bear is the best, if you hit it in the chest it should cause enough pain for the bear to retreat and give it a chance to die. I've shot or been around for shooting dozens of bears, and not one moved towards the shooter after being hit, they always ran away a bit.

I've had bear spray work great one one black bear and the other didn't seem to deter im much at all. Kept coming back after a moment or two.
 
Bear attacks come in different forms. Spray is effective but a dead bear is also very effective. Bears do like the pepper and will lick it up if it is sprayed on something. Do not let that fool you. A well placed shot of spray will cause a bear to stop breathing momentarily and of course their olfactory's are way more sensitive than ours. It could deter them. To answer "the time for a couple of shots post". Quite often this is not the case, you barely have time to spit. The best deal is to have both, gun and spray. A dog will prevent a surprise attack but I realize this is not always possible depending on what you are hunting. True story: A couple of my wife's many cousins, both experienced bushman, were out looking for a young grizzly that was taking out their cattle. They were both armed. The bear jumped them and was shot dead by the brother while he was mauling the other one. They thought they were ready for him. One of the suggested ways to carry the spray is on your chest. That way if you get nailed you can still get a spray off while in defensive mode on the ground. There is no final answer in my opinion. I walk in grizzly/black/cougar country every day (cougars scare me the most). My dog is always with me and so I generally get fair warning and simply walk away from possibly bad situations. Packing a gun all the time is a pain so I always have spray and sometimes the gun. If faced by a charging bear aim for their chin. Good entry area for vitals and breaking their jaw is a good thing if you are that lucky. Having time to aim will be a luxury.
 
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