I dun git it.

Why do you like PDW ARs?

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Athrun[Zaft

Athrun[Zaft

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Maybe it's just me, but I don't get the whole PDW AR-15 thing. Is it a "because I want it" sort of thing (which is more reason than anyone needs, imho), or do you guys have a practical reason for them? Just a bit confuzzled is all.
 
I think PDW length AR15s only serve to turn bullets into noise.
There is no purpuse to them other then the LCF (look cool factor)
 
Effective fragmentation range out of a 12.5" AR is 75yards and under from what I've read.

Out of a 7.5" you might get 10 yards effective fragmentation range? Less? Would it even reach fragmentation velocities?

20" barrel is about 200yards for reliable fragmentation in comparison.

Here's a quote I pulled of the internet regarding the subject...

fmj 5.56's big claim on wound creation is through fragmentation. When you chop the barrel down you lose velocity and increased distance from the target will also cause a velocity drop by impact. Out of an 14.5" barrel m855 is below reliable fragmentation velocity after 50m, if you use an 11.5" barrel, you get 12-15m. M193 would move these distance to 100m and 45m respectively. Inside 100 meters m193 will generally yaw and fragment earlier and more completely than m855 as well.
Click to expand...

5.56 PDW's seem pretty useless as an actual PDW. I would much rather use a 9mm SMG or PDW with good JHP rounds at these ranges. Much smaller and compact for what its intended purpose would be and probably much more reliable expansion at these short ranges.
 
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SBR AR's are lighter, and generally easier to physically manipulate than longer barrel AR's, just due to the decrease in weight. Also, if you've slung one for any length of time, you would instantly appreciate them.

There is a factor of diminishing returns though. The sweet spot for AR's I believe is 14.5. It's a good combination of ballistic effectiveness and ease of carry and manipulation.

Although, out to 200 yards my 10.25" doesn't give up much to the longer barreled AR's. I can still get reliable hits at that distance. Not sure how effective the rounds are when they get there, but they punch paper at that distance just fine.....

P.S. you poll choices are too limited.
 
Most carbine courses, several competition sets are 200 yards and under, so I agree with all the ballistics of comparing say 7.5 to a 18" and up, however as said when punching paper and steel targets it really does not matter at those distances. If you are going for longer range and want to [optic up] as they say certainly 14.5" and upwards is more realistic for that route.

So PDW.....if you like the cool look and size why not, go for it. Personally however anything under 10", "especially without a XB1 or KX3" is super annoying on the face and ears lol. :ar15: :D
 
As I see it there is 3 really good reason for a PDW AR-15

first ; I have talked to friends that were enlisted and they WISHED they had a 7.5" or 10" AR . They explained "sweeping" a building is very difficult with the 18" barrel -- it was in the next room before they were :)

second ; If SHTF and this became a primary weapon , chances are almost everything engaged would be within 75yds or inside the house or building NOT 200 + yds away !! and size & weight makes a difference. What do they say : ounces is pounds and pounds = pain

third ; there REALLY COOL - after all - were just playing at the range and popping paper - why not do it with a ###y hotrod instead of a big old rusted , heavy clunker

yeah -- you guessed it , I got a 7.5” :) and I really like it as a RANGE TOY , it's not a hunting rifle or a 500yd precision rifle
 
Another thing to consider is how lucky were are to have a choice other than chocolate or vanilla

There are those who "I dun git it" why some like handguns - there useless , after all you cant take them hunting !!

others who "I dun git it" for black rifles and prefer classic style or rolling block type rifles

then the purists who "I dun git it" for anything that's not a mil-surp

and what about the tactical crowd, they "I dun git it" why anyone would want a rifle that is aged with wood stock and rust on it -- looking at you mil-surp crowd ;)

I for one am glad there are other options then chocolate or vanilla -- even if the other flavours don't really serve a "purpose" but appreciate there place and roll in our sport
OP – I hope you gett’r now but if you don’t – give a PDW a try , you might find the need to install one in you locker after you do
 
Very well put beananator! Why do people feel that every aspect of the purchase has to be justified? Why do people drive big trucks and hot sports cars? Because they like them and because they can! Good enough reason for me!
 
Chuck3436 said:
Effective fragmentation range out of a 12.5" AR is 75yards and under from what I've read.

Out of a 7.5" you might get 10 yards effective fragmentation range? Less? Would it even reach fragmentation velocities?

20" barrel is about 200yards for reliable fragmentation in comparison.

Here's a quote I pulled of the internet regarding the subject...



5.56 PDW's seem pretty useless as an actual PDW. I would much rather use a 9mm SMG or PDW with good JHP rounds at these ranges. Much smaller and compact for what its intended purpose would be and probably much more reliable expansion at these short ranges.
Click to expand...

Fragmentation of any 5.56 FMJ bullet is an inconsistent wounding mechanism:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=26905

I wouldn't count on it for any barrel length.

Short barreled rifles can offer effective short range performance through the selection of appropriate, barrier-blind ammunition; better than any 9mm in terms of both wounding potential and armour penetration.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881
 
Chuck3436 said:
Effective fragmentation range out of a 12.5" AR is 75yards and under from what I've read.

Out of a 7.5" you might get 10 yards effective fragmentation range? Less? Would it even reach fragmentation velocities?

20" barrel is about 200yards for reliable fragmentation in comparison.

Here's a quote I pulled of the internet regarding the subject...



5.56 PDW's seem pretty useless as an actual PDW. I would much rather use a 9mm SMG or PDW with good JHP rounds at these ranges. Much smaller and compact for what its intended purpose would be and probably much more reliable expansion at these short ranges.
Click to expand...

The fragmentation threshold you mention is for M193 and M855 ammo only. If you aren't governed by big MIL then you're free to choose more effective bullet weights and styles. Regardless of the fragmentation performance, shot placement trumps all. I'm confident that a projectile at the velocity even a 7.5" barrel produces to the face or heart will shut you down. The key to kinetic energy is velocity, not mass. Smaller faster projectiles carry more kinetic energy than large slow projectiles. There's a reason smart agencies are running SBR AR's over sub guns.

As for uses in this country. I would say home defense/personal defense. If some choose not to defend themselves that's their choice. If you do decide your life is more important and think for yourself, then why not run the most effective tool for the job?

Epoxy7 said:
Yes, it's called a pistol.. :p
Click to expand...

Pistols are grossly anemic in terms of terminal performance and are not shoulder controlled, which makes then significantly more difficult to run at speed with accuracy.


TDC
 
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