40 S&Ws Suck

He's a youtube troll. You don't get people to watch and talk about your vids by posting 30 mins of discussions about how all calibers are just fine... use any gun you want... have fun... you know... "vanilla is good, chocolate is good too... now everybody just hug and get along"

Nope... you wanna start something... get attention... you gotta push peoples buttons... piss in their cornflakes... stir it up a bit. He's trying hard... but I'll still shoot 40.
 
some history on why 40 is dominant in Ontario Policing.

- orginally - controlled expansion ammo was not an option - FMJ-TCM was the order of the day
- when stuck with hardball ammo, the rule of wider is better - regardless - hardball sucks
- 2 calibers were approved - 9mm and 40S&W
- 40 is wider than 9
- once 1 large agency jumps to a system, many others fall in line - the rule of "what is ###X doing" - ###X - insert large agency name
- new controlled expansion ammo basically show that 9 and 40 ammo is even in performance
- many agencies are moving to new guns. ideal time to switch to 9 right? running 2 calibers on the same line can bring a host of problems. So they stay status quo on calibres
- 9 would be my choice because it is easier to shoot and more bullets are good.
- 40 works too if you can shoot it effectively.....key - effectively

Boltgun
 
Well smart guy I have a duty pistol G22 40 cal with 50,000 + rounds and I never changed a bloody part on it and it runs just as good today as it did on day one. Clean it maintain it and it will work. You have no credibility. Terminal ballistics, well let's see how big the wound channel is 9mm vs 40 or 45. Another guy posting BS on the Internet and suddenly he's a guru.
 
Outcast said:
Well smart guy I have a duty pistol G22 40 cal with 50,000 + rounds and I never changed a bloody part on it and it runs just as good today as it did on day one. Clean it maintain it and it will work. You have no credibility. Terminal ballistics, well let's see how big the wound channel is 9mm vs 40 or 45. Another guy posting BS on the Internet and suddenly he's a guru.
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OC are you referring to my post or Yager's video
 
Just a quick side note regarding wound channels.

for those that are not up to speed - bullets create permamnent and temporary wound cavities. Handguns are notoriously underpowered. Because of this, you cannot rely on temporary cavitation in handguns. You must rely on permanent wound cavities. the averages of an expand 9 vs 40 show that there is a minimal advantage to 40 - so minimal it isn't really significant enough to consider. The key is to get the permanent cavity deep enough to vital structures. if a 9 and 40 penetrate 15 inches identically, then picking the caliber that is easier to shoot becomes more important.

Regardless - if you like 40 go with it....if you like 9 go with it - 9 is going to be slightly cheaper to shoot and slightly easier to shoot. since we can only have 10 round mags, capacity is a moot point.

Boltgun
 
The advantage of the .40 is really intermediate barrier penetration...it doesn't have better numbers in terms of terminal performance on human beings than 9mm.

I don't shoot .40 but I'm not opposed to its existence...just understand that you are giving up capacity and slowing down your shot recovery in exchange for better intermediate barrier performance. If that's something you value enough to deal with the penalty you pay, enjoy your .40. If you're not interested in IB penetration, then there's no advantage to the heavier caliber.

If you're going to shoot .40 I would be more selective of the platform than in 9mm. A lot of .40 Glocks had issues, particularly when they had lights mounted, for example.
 
Having never shot anything with a handgun other than paper, I'll avoid wading into the 'stopping power' debate. However, there is this:

http://www.gunweek.com/2005/feature0910.html

Many disparage the 9mm’s stopping power, and knowing that only military “ball” ammunition was available, I asked if this had been a problem. Spook said that it hadn’t. He knows what some of the gun magazine chest-beaters claim in print, and admits that he hasn’t shot any blocks of ballistic gelatin. He has shot eight men with the nine, though, and all went down with center thorax hits. One or two shots sufficed, if well placed. Spook knows that others have complained about the nine, and wonders where they hit their opponents. He has talked with a couple of tank crewmen who shot Iraqis off their huge armored mounts, and they seemed satisfied, too.
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If one wants 'stopping power,' then grab a shoulder weapon. 'Powerful handgun' is an oxymoron. Fifty pound-feet isn't much of a difference, between cartridges. And I don't like the increase in hoop stress over the nine, inherent in the larger diameter .40, at the same ~35,000PSI case pressure. (Kabooms seem to be very rare with the 9x19.)
 
misanthropist said:
If you're going to shoot .40 I would be more selective of the platform than in 9mm. A lot of .40 Glocks had issues, particularly when they had lights mounted, for example.
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I'd also avoid 180gr rounds, as setback (and resulting possibility of kabooms) seem to be more common with this round. And polymer guns with extensive steel stiffening seem to have less problem with frame droop than the all-nylon Glock...but frame droop was a problem with long-slide M&Ps that was mentioned by a poster here, about a month ago.
 
Agent666 said:
I'd also avoid 180gr rounds, as setback (and resulting possibility of kabooms) seem to be more common with this round. And polymer guns with extensive steel stiffening seem to have less problem with frame droop than the all-nylon Glock...but frame droop was a problem with long-slide M&Ps that was mentioned by a poster here, about a month ago.
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Debunked pretty quick too. Frame droop with an M&P is pure fantesy as were the picgtures the guy posted. Go back and take a ruler to his "drooped frame" and you will see the frame is dead staright. The slide angles slightly upward on the M&P, part of the design.

Take Care

Bob
 
I shoot 9, 40 and 45acp as well as revolver cartridges. Im fine with any of the 3 pistol rounds.As Misathropist correctly pointed out the bigger heavier cals are better with
intermid barriers with 40 having the best advantage when shooting through glass(windshieds) 9 has advantage in sheet metal (car doors) especially the hotter loadings due to velocity. My issue with JY is his courses and how he runs them. By his own admission he has had 2 students shoot themselves in his course,and was investigated.
From what I understand it both time it was during a transition from rifle to pistol. His defense was " we told them to put the safety on". any time i was instructed on transition
we loaded 1 round in the mag fired the round and then transition. This removes the newb variable. This is just one of the horror stories that I know about.The instructors he hires are just as bad.You would think after what happened in Iraq and these other incidents that these would be humbling experience. Not make him more obnoxious and more arrogant.
 
Max Owner said:
If we had concealed carry, a 380 ACP would be good in my mind.

Something is better than nothing.
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Better than nothing is all that can be said for the .380. The ammo choices are either JHPs that expand and don't penetrate enough (minimum 12" in 10% gelatin) or non-expanding FMJs to meet the minimum penetration. A compact 9mm auto pistol or .38 Special out of a J Frame are a much more sensible minimum.

As for the .40, it was developed at a time when few, if any, 9mm loads could meet FBI protocol standards (expanding while penetrating 12"-18" in gelatin). Improvements in bullet design since then have narrowed the performance gap between the two calibres to the point where barrier performance is the only area in which there is a significant advantage to the .40.

Point of fact: 9mm and .40 both have a SAAMI maximum pressure of 35,000 psi. While it is generally harder on guns, .40 S&W is no more a "high pressure" round than the 9mm.
 
Maxkeg said:
40 cal is an awesome round with more accuracy and knock-down power than 9mm and 45. You have to know how to load it right.
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Now that is some funny sh*t. You need to stop reading magazines and internet lore and seek factual data. For starters there is no such thing as "knockdown power" or "stopping power". Nothing man portable will ensure a one shot stop and handguns are a poor choice for downing people regardless of calibre. The name of the game is SHOT PLACEMENT. Calibre and bullet style/weight/design are contributing factors along with SHOT PLACEMENT. Plenty of people have fallen to 9mm and many have fallen to lesser calibres like 25ACP 32ACP and even 22lr. In the same regard, many have taken multiple hits from 9mm/40/45 and not gone down. There are examples of people being shot with 5.56 and 12ga and not going down. Stop worrying about calibre and all the bulsh*t surrounding it. Run something you can shoot well and shoot fast with a high capacity and place your shots.

TDC
 
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