Looking to Buy a NR Rifle

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Kanwar88

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Hey CGN'ers,

So I've been looking around for another rifle to purchase, preferably non restricted as I already have a AR-15. Looking to shoot distances from 50-300m, at a range (from rest and possibly move and shoot) and possibly out in the bush. I've narrowed it down to the Tavor or SL8.

Tavor is a bit pricier in comparison and I am worried about the heavy trigger, however, being a bullpup is a plus.
The SL8 I would like to convert to a G36 (folding stock and pistol grip, forend is fine the way it is) but it seems like its very difficult to find parts and full conversion may go way above budget.

My budget is 3k, willing to spend more if its justifiable, has anyone fired both of these? And is there some other rifle that I should consider ?
Thanks for any insight, I apologize if a similar topic has been discussed.

Regards,

Kanwar
 
Tavor, SL8/G36, Swiss Arms, ACR, XCR


All viable NR black rifle options, look into all of them and decide which is best for you, and have fun doing it!!! No one will be able to tell you what you want.
 
Kanwar88 said:
Are there any substantial pros for a swiss arms?
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High accuracy and reliability. The trigger is also quite good for a service rifle.

Mine will do 1.5" at 100 yards with bulk XM193, and sub MOA with hand loads. With over 8000 rounds through 2 different rifles, I can count the number of malfunctions on 1 hand.

The biggest down side is the weight and use of non-STANAG magazines. There are conversion kits and replacement lowers that will allow the use of STANAG mags, and it is only about 0.5 lbs more than the SL8 (which also needs a conversion magwell to use AR mags).

Short of the Swiss Arms, my next choice would be the Tavor.
 
Ar180shooter said:
The biggest down side is the weight and use of non-STANAG magazines.
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Some consider the use of non-STANAG mags to be a big up-side to the Swiss rifles. The proprietary mags used in the Swiss rifle's are very reliable and very durable when compared to STANAG mags. But this is a completely different discussion.

I would also tentativly suggest a Swiss Arms, but it really does depend on what the OP wants in a rifle, if modularity is a big plus, the XCR is ready to go right out of the box, and the Swiss get's really heavy when you add the quad rial, so if it's modularity he's after then the Swiss is a horrible choice, now, if unrivaled reliability, and accuracy is what he's after, he should consider the Swiss. But, if he likes Bull-Pup's, obviously the Tavor is first in line.
 
mrsmitty said:
Swiss arms is just too damn front heavy for most.
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If it's to heavy for those of you out there with weak puny arms, get a gym membership:p:p:p;)

On a more serious note, I agree it's quite front heavy (such is life) but once you ditch the bi-pod and get a good feel for it, your can run drills pretty quick with it. Really, if you practice enough with any platform, moving with it will become more instinctual, and it will become almost an extension of yourself, at that time weight (within reason) and balance matter less, as muscle memory takes over.

rugersr22 said:
What is the weight of a stock Swiss Arms Special Target?
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Stock Rifle with Drum sight is 9lbs, drop the bi-pod and you can get it to about 8.5lbs

Not sure about the flat top but all it's missing in comparison is the drum sight, so it couldn't be much difference.
 
Steve Janes said:
Some consider the use of non-STANAG mags to be a big up-side to the Swiss rifles. The proprietary mags used in the Swiss rifle's are very reliable and very durable when compared to STANAG mags. But this is a completely different discussion.
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I would tend to agree with that, and both my Swiss Arms rifles have the stock lowers, and I have no plans to change that. The only real argument that could be made is that AR mags are cheaper and you can use the 10 round LAR-15 mags. Since neither of those things really matter to me, I'm happy with the Swiss (well, CanAm) rock in mags.

mrsmitty said:
Swiss arms is just too damn front heavy for most.
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It's not much heavier than a 20" Colt HBAR, which is the best thing to compare it to. Removing the bi-pod helps.
 
just bought Swiss Arms black special, extremely happy with it. Considering functionality, fit and finish, i'd say its worth every penny. Tavor is also right up there, not as accurate though .. love those as well.
 
Apparently tactical imports is trying to get a non restricted FAMAE SG 542, how would this compare with current swiss arms rifles.
 
The ACR with a NR barrel will give you the best all around performance, but will also be the most expensive. I'm not a fan of the Swiss Arms, simply due to the fact that it's obscenely heavy. The Tavor is the most compact, but certainly not a tack driver by any stretch (and of course I'm biased). There's also the XCR-L, although YMMV.
 
blaxsun said:
The ACR with a NR barrel will give you the best all around performance, but will also be the most expensive. I'm not a fan of the Swiss Arms, simply due to the fact that it's obscenely heavy. The Tavor is the most compact, but certainly not a tack driver by any stretch (and of course I'm biased). There's also the XCR-L, although YMMV.
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An ACR with a 14.5" barrel weighs in at 7.8 lbs and with a 16" barrel it's up to 8.3 lbs. A full length Swiss Arms (without bi-pod) weighs in at about 8.6 lbs, I suspect adding the 18.5" NR barrel to the ACR will bring it right into the same ball park. Both are fine rifles.
 
Steve Janes said:
An ACR with a 14.5" barrel weighs in at 7.8 lbs and with a 16" barrel it's up to 8.3 lbs. A full length Swiss Arms (without bi-pod) weighs in at about 8.6 lbs, I suspect adding the 18.5" NR barrel to the ACR will bring it right into the same ball park. Both are fine rifles.
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Actually, the latest generation 16" ACRs are a bit less (the new factory barrels have a lighter profile). But you're right, once you put a match barrel on the ACR you'll probably be pushing 8lbs. On the flip side, once you add a folding/collapsible stock and quad rail to the Swiss Arms - it'll be well over 10lbs. That extra 2lbs doesn't sound like a lot - but it really adds up. And, those extras will push the price of your Swiss Arms to around the $4,500 mark. There's also the proprietary 5-round magazine limit.
 
I never thought I would say this but... The SL8 is a decent option for what the OP has described for use.

Yes Ive fired the SL8, Tavor and PE90.

The SL8 seems bulky and the thumbhole does hamper ergonomics. I'm also not too fond of the polymer rail. That being said the trigger is OK, it has a 1:7 varmint contour barrel with target crown and you can use an adapter for STANAG mags. Fireball has one that he's modified the stock so it has a pistol grip. I shot it prior to the mod. We slapped on an Eotech 553 I had mounted a 22LR AR upper. Much to our surprise it was dead on at the 50 line with the SL8. Yes pure luck. We were shooting clays off hand. You couldn't miss. It feels a bit bulky but with the magpul vertical forend grip it handled pretty quick. Shooting off hand was pretty good. They also shoot decently off the bench. The main issue is changing it around costs a fortune. G36 look alike, AR stocks (looks wrong) and now the Hera with ACR stock are options but are expensive. I like the look with the ACR stock.

The Swiss arms. Heavier, ergos are ok but dated in some cases. Pistol grip could be a bit bigger, charging handle is in the right, and the mag release is typical AK style paddle. Very well built quality firearm with nice additions such as the bolt release on left, breaks open like AR, trigger guard flips out of the way for gloves and one of the few folding stocks I like. Trigger is OK, and accuracy is decent. The built in bipod seems nice but in reality isn't that great.

Tavor. The trigger is the heaviest and so far it seems to be only battle rifle accurate not varmint. Great ergos, uses STANAG mags but be careful some Pmags cause bolt lift. Handles the best and is the best choice for shooting in unsupported positions. It's a modern 21st century rifle.

ACR. I like it but cost along with changing the barrel make it a very expensive firearm. I also like the standard forend over the enhanced version. I personally feel like the ACR still has a ways to go in terms of cost, availability, weight and a proven track record. The other three are based off military proven designs. On paper it's perfect but there are a few details that could use some work. I haven't shot one of these yet. I've only looked one over at the store.

What I like about the ACR is it's the closest to a non restricted AR from this group. Let's be honest if the AR wasn't restricted it would be the easy choice. At least for your first rifle.
 
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