0.3" Groups? Pull My Other Finger, It Has Bells On It...

"Any accuracy tips or helpful antipsychotic drugs are sincerely appreciated. "

Buy a Savage....

Sorry, was just too easy...

Proper bedding, proper load tuning, sized target to fit/suit your scope mag and reticle, solid rests, all help. Some factory barrels are duds.... maybe that needs to be changed.
Jerry
 
Don't look at it as a bad rifle, look at it as a project you can improve on. If it shot .3 out of the box, where the heck do you go from there? the fun is getting there as far as I'm concerned.
 
curseyou said:
Have you tried drinking AFTER you go shooting? :D

YMMV
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Why...how RUDE!!! (Although I suppose you were correct to suspect it, to be honest...). No, I wasn't drunk, and I am pretty sure that if you give me a sub-MOA gun I can shoot sub-MOA groups with it. I have the sandbags, concrete bench and all that good stuff. :)

And no, I don't expect to take Jerry at Mystic Precision (or any of you other F-Class snipers) to school with a $600 gun. It has the shorty pipe, and yeah I know it is a bull barrel...but to go hunting medals against you guys I understand I would have to shell out some serious cash to do it - and put in some serious range time. As a shooter, I fall midway between the anal retentive precision marksman and the careless Fudd that is happy if he can dump a moose or a deer at 200 yards. I hunt and shoot for meat and for fun and that's pretty much it!

I am looking at the set up I have, and what I want is a gun that can do about 1" groups with hunting bullets off the bench. I also want the gun to do that with bullets fed from the magazine too, not seated out so far that they won't fit in the mag.

In your scholarly opinion, am I asking too much of this rifle...?
 
NO.... a modern factory rifle should shoot SUB MOA with quality ammo, once the basic TLC has been taken care off.

I have a Savage Axis with a Stevens take off 223 barrel that will hold 3/8" on average at 100yds until the barrel gets hot. For a hunting/predator barrel, that level of performance is just fine. I have shot many Savage rifles that were sub MOA with most hovering around 1/2 min.

Just started working with a Ruger American and if it continues to shoot like my first test session, well under SUB MOA should be possible.

The problem is QC on barrels is all over the map. Companies like Savage seem to put on better then average pipes. Rem, unfortunately, hasn't been faring so well.

Take 10 identical Rem rifles and I bet you get wildly different results.

BUT the bedding needs to be addressed first. Modern drop in stocks have inletting that is far too generous. All my rifles are bedded before I ever send a bullet downrange. Simply no point otherwise.

You may find that your barrel throat is too long. If it is, nothing you do will make it shoot.

To test, take a bullet and just seat into the case neck (empty case, no primer). Just enough so it doesnt fall out. Chamber it and extract. If the bullet pushes back into the case neck, measure how much it shortened up. If 1/8 to 1/4", there is hope. If the bullet didn't budge, get another pipe cause the throat is cut like a burnt out barrel.

Maybe a warranty issue here.

Jerry
 
SPS ACC-SD .308
B&C Stock
Reloads (Varget, 178 AMAX, CCI-BR2, Lapua Brass)

Keep in mind I'm a beginner shooter and only shot the gun 98 times total. 20 of which were barrel fouling shots and the rest were load developement. The first 50 were bunk so they can be tossed out of this consideration.

Best was .6MOA, sub 1.5 easily. Still developing my load but hope to keep it under 1MOA for most groupings.

I do need to fix my crown. I got a bad one from the factory. Very uneven. That should help. I might be bedding the stock this weekend if I can't get out shooting. With those two mods I hope to greatly increase my accuracy.

I understand it's a budget gun, but I think sub MOA is pretty good for the price. I hope for .5-.75 repeatable though.
 
Maybe a silly question, but when you were shooting at 100 was the scope parallax free? I've got a couple of older Remington 700's and they shoot quite well for factory rifles. The .223 a bit more so than the .308. The .308 has a long throat as a previous poster mentioned.

Chris.
 
Jerry brings up allot of good points!

Every rifle I obtain gets the same Treatment before it is even fired.

1.) clean the bore

2.) remove the stock clean up the action/stock bedding surface.
Inspect the barrel for a nice square, machined muzzle. And Ensure the barrel is free floated.

3.) glass bed the rifle. Easy to do once you see it done!

4.) mount the scope hardware with the highest quality bases & rings you can "logically" afford. Make sure they are tight and squarely Mounted.

5.) Mount a scope that is Designed for target shooting. Preferably a
Proven scope. I mount a 6.5-20 VXIII for the initial firearm testing. This way I can Aim small to hit small,so to speak. Also a good Target scope has a parrallax adjustment. Which is very imortant for accurate/consistant shooting.
The scope the O.P. Has utilized may have parellax at 100, but not as much at 200. That could possibly explain the same group size phenomenon.

6.) Reload some Ammumition with more than just one type of powder. Donot
Just choose your "favorite" or "The only Powder" you have. If you want to give a firearm a real chance to perform, you gotta test a variety of components. This Takes time and determination. Some rifles
Take many tests to yield a great load that meets a shooters needs. Others simply dial in easily and are
Not fussy. Generally speaking, the better a firearms parts are assembled "quality & or fit", the easier it is to get to shoot accurately. Be sure not to get mad too quick, it may just close your mind to the simple fix. Been there/done that, many times! hopefully I have learned my lessons!

Like SND said, its the journey to make A Rifle shoot well that the "FUN" is experienced. A shooter learns WAYYYY more in this way! And becomes much better/quicker at finding "THE LOAD".

If after These basic preperations and tests, the rifle Still shoots like a shotgun, you may need to look at a gunsmith like Mystic Precision to help you out.

Good luck, and keep it fun!
 
Forgive me for putting in my two cents. I am what you'd call almost a one-gun guy, and it happens to be a Remington 700VLS 24" barrel. Had it for some time and did all the things Jerry and Dthunter bring up. Very valid and good advise. Although I can't say what you need to do to the rifle in your case, I do know what shoots in mine. I actually have two loads that both shoot sub half MOA consistently. One is based on a Federal nickel case, BR2 primer, 46 grains of Varget and topped with a 155 Palma Match. The second round is Lapua case, BR2 primer, 46 grains of Varget and topped with a Lapua 155 Scenar. Both rounds will stay super out to 1000 yards, but have some serious drop and fade issues. If you don't shoot at that range and your rifling is 1/12 maybe try the Berger 185 Match Target VLD bc of 0.549. I went through a lot of powder loads to find the rifles ideal node. Expect to have to do the same. Half grains do make a difference.

I like the 155s. BCs on both bullets are very close to 0.500 with the 155 SC actually at 0.508. Seating depth is arbitrary since the throats are indeed long and you will never seat one out far enough in a factory rifle to even approach the lands.

I pay particular attention to neck tension. Use a collet die and benchrest seater and roll every round. Call me anal.

I am also working with a 20 barrel on a Remi 700 and we had issues with that concerning grouping. Eventually it was determined that it needs to be bedded, however, we got it to .6 " with handloads that also consisted of 46 grains of Varget but topped with a 155 Amax. I expect this one to go to sub half MOA as well.

I would also like to mention the crown. Have a look/see at the business end and see how the barrel terminates. It can have a profound effect on consistency.

I use a Bausch and Lomb Tactical 10x mildot. They don't make them anymore but the point is that a good scope will make a difference well. They don't have to cost 1500 bucks, but they should perform like one.


Hope this helps a bit as well. Good luck.
 
Same rifle. Varget- 42.1 gr. 178 gr amax, federal brass to standard length, cci 200 primer. Total length to 2.82. With no crimp. Gives me 1.5 at 400 on a nice day more often them not. Try some seating. Good luck.
 
I probably should have mentioned that "group" sizes can be reduced by about 60% by shooting three shots rather than five:)
 
Gootch said:
it happens to be
a Remington 700VLS 24" barrel.
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Forgive me my trespasses friend Gootch, but the last time I shot your pigster, it was a 26" VSSF. :p :slap: :cheers:



"I like the 155s. BCs on both bullets are very close to 0.500 with the 155 SC actually at 0.508. Seating depth is arbitrary since the throats are indeed long and you will never seat one out far enough in a factory rifle to even approach the lands.

I pay particular attention to neck tension. Use a collet die and benchrest seater and roll every round. Call me anal.

I am also working with a 20 barrel on a Remi 700 and we had issues with that concerning grouping. Eventually it was determined that it needs to be bedded, however, we got it to .6 " with handloads that also consisted of 46 grains of Varget but topped with a 155 Amax. I expect this one to go to sub half MOA as well."


All kidding aside, this member and his rifle can really shoot. .3 MOA is common, and distant gongs clang with boring regularity. :rockOn:
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i shoot a 700 sps in 30-06 with hand loads, 180 gr bullets seem to shoot the best with mine. heres a 5 shot group out of mine at 100 yards, squares are 1 inch in size, and dont mind the flyer it was a twitch. even this gun when i first bought it before doing any work was still shooting 1 moa with cheap federal ammo
target.jpg

she has a 4 ounce rifle basix trigger, cheap bi pod, cheap scope, and grizzly gun works brake and im an ok shot at best. id suggest putting a stronger scope on, i know my groups open up when i turn down my scopes magnification from 22x to 6x so perhaps thats the biggest factor for you, or your gun just doesnt like the loads in it. even with my hand loads a 1 grain difference in powder will result from half moa to 3 moa groups
 
Shooting good, uchi.

We had an SPS out on the swamp ice last weekend ... the sun bearing on one side of the forend, warped it to hard contact, the formerly oval groups spread horizontal.

a 1 grain difference in powder will result from half moa to 3 moa groups
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Some rifles, go from great to gawdauffle in one grain of powder.
 
vviking said:
Shooting good, uchi.

We had an SPS out on the swamp ice last weekend ... the sun bearing on one side of the forend, warped it to hard contact, the formerly oval groups spread horizontal.


Some rifles, go from great to gawdauffle in one grain of powder.
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thanks, these will be improved in my next outing, trying out a new batch of bullets and im going to bed the stock soon too.

ill see if i can find the pictures of when i was testing some lighter loads, but literally 1 grain difference turned it from a precision target gun to a close your eyes and throw rocks at the target gun.
 
Okay, I will check the throat tonight. Maybe I am getting a little sloppy at the reloading bench too...

As far as bedding this rifle...I have heard it is relatively easy to do...have any of you guys done it on one of these rubber stocks? I wonder about the effectivenes of glassing a rubber stock though. And now I don't feel so bad - the guy on Youtube is getting 2" groups out of his and he has some serious money into it by the looks of it.

How hard is it to bed a rifle?

Looks like another money-pit here boys! If anyone needs me I will be over at Mystic Precision rumagging through the stocks and barrels...goddammitalltohell. Looks like I will also need a swiss bank account that the old lady knows nothing about.
 
ive never bedded a stock butfrom what ive seen it doesnt seem too hard to do. im not sure what your reloading experience is but ive found the same bullet with the same powder load, depth, etc etc, would hit significantly differently if i didnt chamfer and debur the case properly, night and day. also you start getting in to cold barrel shots and hot barrel and clean barrel and fouled, etc etc, i find my gun takes a good 10 shots to foul it before itll shoot tight groups, all of the ones leading to that are just all over the place, usually high and left i find.
 
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