Grouping, what to espect ?
- Thread starter tazik
- Start date
I draw and shoot...whatever I hit, I call the target. Single shot groupings are your best bet...any other expectations and you'll only f up your range day.
Play safe,
Plinker777
Play safe,
Plinker777
Are you asking how well you should do or how well the gun/ammo should do?
I test my guns and loads at 20 or 25 yards. I shoot standing with 2 hands. if I can get all 10 shots into the black (4") I consider that a good load for that pistol. Sometimes just 0.3 gr more or less can make a huge difference.
I test my guns and loads at 20 or 25 yards. I shoot standing with 2 hands. if I can get all 10 shots into the black (4") I consider that a good load for that pistol. Sometimes just 0.3 gr more or less can make a huge difference.
In bullseye shooting High Master shoots 97%, that's 97 shots out of 100 clipping the 10 ring and typically many of those are X ring shots. High Masters are pretty rare and requires extra special talent but Master class 95% I think is possible for may if you put your mind to it.
At 25 yards that means a 2" group off hand, good guns are quite capable of 1" groups or better. Under 15 yards and under any decent gun should be able to put a bullet into the same hole over and over and over.
What should your goal be? Whatever makes you happy. For me, my goal at 25 yards is to get 10 shots shots all in the black. I've done it a few times but not often. It makes me happy when I do! Obviously I'm not going to be a High Master any time soon
Ganderite's scans should give you a pretty good idea, that old S&W Victory is pretty sweet!
At 25 yards that means a 2" group off hand, good guns are quite capable of 1" groups or better. Under 15 yards and under any decent gun should be able to put a bullet into the same hole over and over and over.
What should your goal be? Whatever makes you happy. For me, my goal at 25 yards is to get 10 shots shots all in the black. I've done it a few times but not often. It makes me happy when I do! Obviously I'm not going to be a High Master any time soon
Ganderite's scans should give you a pretty good idea, that old S&W Victory is pretty sweet!
My eyes and nerves aren't what they used to be but on a good evening at my club's 20 yard indoor sessions I can match or nearly enough match Ganderite's groups while standing and shooting freehand. This being a slow deliberate bullseye shooting pace with rests between ever shot or two. And with my better guns I have managed to get nice tight sub 3 inch groups on a decently frequent basis even if it's not a regular thing.
If shooting for speed with acceptable accuracy combined I like to see all my shots within the 8 inch round -0 center of the IDPA or 15x30 cm IPSC Alpha zones at 15 yards. And generally I can manage that with maybe 1 in 10 outside of these zones.
For the bullseye stuff I've learned from others and myself that small shifts in posture and hold can make quite a difference. And of course this assumes that the shooter is well skilled at the basics of holding the gun in a stable manner and ONLY moving the trigger finger with no other issues.
If shooting for speed with acceptable accuracy combined I like to see all my shots within the 8 inch round -0 center of the IDPA or 15x30 cm IPSC Alpha zones at 15 yards. And generally I can manage that with maybe 1 in 10 outside of these zones.
For the bullseye stuff I've learned from others and myself that small shifts in posture and hold can make quite a difference. And of course this assumes that the shooter is well skilled at the basics of holding the gun in a stable manner and ONLY moving the trigger finger with no other issues.
Forest1488
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of Toronto
Just keep at it. Your 7-8 inch groups will shrink in proportion to the amount of time you spend trying to get better.
Tazik, I wasn't far off your results and figured that was about it. But due to the hints from a couple of the guys I started playing around with my posture. Just moving to a better position for me resulted in about a 2 inch reduction in group size.
Another is when you pull the trigger don't actually try to move it. Instead build pressure evenly and let the trigger move or not as it wants. And remember to pull through the break point. When the gun is finished kicking from the recoil you should still have the trigger held back against the rear travel limit. By commiting to pulling the trigger to the rear stop instead of to the BANG! you tend to lose focus on the upcoming noise and flame and concentrate more on a smooth and steady hold. Just this one mental shift makes a HUGE difference.
Another is when you pull the trigger don't actually try to move it. Instead build pressure evenly and let the trigger move or not as it wants. And remember to pull through the break point. When the gun is finished kicking from the recoil you should still have the trigger held back against the rear travel limit. By commiting to pulling the trigger to the rear stop instead of to the BANG! you tend to lose focus on the upcoming noise and flame and concentrate more on a smooth and steady hold. Just this one mental shift makes a HUGE difference.
The thing is to try some shifts in those things. It's wonderful to keep them in mind but if you're thinking about and doing them wrong then you're just re-inforcing bad habits instead of developing good ones. Alter some of the stuff a little this way and that and see how it affects your group size. On the other hand some of the things are "locked" with only one way being the best. For example the gun being centered in the web of your strong hand so it naturally lines up with your forearm. And the idea of locking your focus on the front sight so it's the most sharp.
One aspect is vision. If you wear glasses to see the front sight clearly and you're shooting in a fairly low light setting your image of the distant target might be rather fuzzy. A trick us poor vision guys use is to get one of the little stick on small aperature spots so we look at the sights through a small hole. This increases our eye's depth of field at the same time it reduces any lack of sharpness due to astigmatism. It might be something worth trying.
I haven't actually got one of the stick on gizmos yet but I got to try one and it sure does make everything a little more clear. It does make the room look a little more dim with the smaller size aperatures. So like anything you gotta play around with the idea.
One aspect is vision. If you wear glasses to see the front sight clearly and you're shooting in a fairly low light setting your image of the distant target might be rather fuzzy. A trick us poor vision guys use is to get one of the little stick on small aperature spots so we look at the sights through a small hole. This increases our eye's depth of field at the same time it reduces any lack of sharpness due to astigmatism. It might be something worth trying.
I haven't actually got one of the stick on gizmos yet but I got to try one and it sure does make everything a little more clear. It does make the room look a little more dim with the smaller size aperatures. So like anything you gotta play around with the idea.
Those lasts post are I think exactly points that I need to improve, many thanks for advises.
2-3 grouping is definitively my goal.
I have the tendancy to pull the trigger and stop a tiny mm just before the bang point..., I have adjust my R1 trigger with just 1 mm travel, I think I will like this....need to try it now....
and yes I definitively need to take more time between the shots...I will keep those posts....thank guys
2-3 grouping is definitively my goal.
I have the tendancy to pull the trigger and stop a tiny mm just before the bang point..., I have adjust my R1 trigger with just 1 mm travel, I think I will like this....need to try it now....
and yes I definitively need to take more time between the shots...I will keep those posts....thank guys
Last time I was at the range with my wife I took the ol' Ruger #1 Target with some crappy Remington Thunderbolt ammo I needed to burn off. She was all over the place with it at 20 yards and I told her not to worry, that ammo sucks and is inaccurate. I then did a 5 shot 1.5" group with my strong hand, not slow not fast. I was really shocked and impressed and I'm going to have to try some RMS hobbies in that gun in the near future. I really wish I saved that target but we where in a hurry to get home at the time.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Are you asking how well you should do or how well the gun/ammo should do?
I test my guns and loads at 20 or 25 yards. I shoot standing with 2 hands. if I can get all 10 shots into the black (4") I consider that a good load for that pistol. Sometimes just 0.3 gr more or less can make a huge difference.
Thanks for sharing all those targets Gander. Great shooting man, especially the NZ target. You can barely notice the powder burns.
Thanks for sharing all those targets Gander. Great shooting man, especially the NZ target. You can barely notice the powder burns.
20 yards on that one. That pistol is one of my favourite Norincos because I got it for only $150 (on EE, a year ago).
One of the most important things I did to improve my handgun performance was to get a pair of shooting glasses.
The left lens is my regular bi-focal, so I can see the distance ok and also can see the bench for loading mags, etc. The right lens (shooting eye) is optimised for 33" so I can see my front sight clearly. The optical center of the lens is displaced up and left, so i am looking thru it when my head is in the aim position. With cheap frames they cost me $50. Best $50 I ever spent.
If you are over 40 you might want to consider how well you can see the front sight.
In my log book this is the $100 Rossi. Another gun I scored on EE.
My 357 Taurus. Don't know what model it is. They don't mark the model on their guns. ???
One of the few that did not come from EE. This Ruger 101 if from a shop at Port Perry. Only $250 (used).
Not only is it a short barrel, but an Airweight, too. But it shoots well.
One of my first Norincos. I was very impressed and now have a dozen or so. 200gr SWC and 6.0gr 7625 A medium power load.
Probably my best pistol. Has a fabulous trigger.
Each pistol has a load that it does best with. But 20 9mms can share only 3 different loads, so logistics are not too bad.
The left lens is my regular bi-focal, so I can see the distance ok and also can see the bench for loading mags, etc. The right lens (shooting eye) is optimised for 33" so I can see my front sight clearly. The optical center of the lens is displaced up and left, so i am looking thru it when my head is in the aim position. With cheap frames they cost me $50. Best $50 I ever spent.
If you are over 40 you might want to consider how well you can see the front sight.
In my log book this is the $100 Rossi. Another gun I scored on EE.
My 357 Taurus. Don't know what model it is. They don't mark the model on their guns. ???
One of the few that did not come from EE. This Ruger 101 if from a shop at Port Perry. Only $250 (used).
Not only is it a short barrel, but an Airweight, too. But it shoots well.
One of my first Norincos. I was very impressed and now have a dozen or so. 200gr SWC and 6.0gr 7625 A medium power load.
Probably my best pistol. Has a fabulous trigger.
Each pistol has a load that it does best with. But 20 9mms can share only 3 different loads, so logistics are not too bad.
