Over/Under for hunting

[Cintax]

I am in the process of purchasing a shotgun and I'd like to get some opinions. Thinking about a new Stoeger Condor (12ga) or something higher end but used. Budget is the same, around $500-600.

I imagine they would be just fine for shooting other upland game and fowl but I'm not sure on the turkey and deer. How effective would a O/U shotgun be in terms of hunting turkey and deer?

I like the classic styling of the O/U type shotgun which is why I want one. I am not a big fan of pumps at all but if its the better option I'd go with it. In that case I am considering Weatherby PA-08, Remington 870 and Stoeger P-350.

Any suggestions?

 

[Scott_N]

Usually deer shotguns have rifle sights on them, and sometimes rifled barrels. An O/U isn't going to work all that well with slugs, assuming that's what you'd use. I can't comment on turkey hunting.

 

[Slowbalt]

Assuming you get interchangeable choke tubes I'd be quite comfortable with it.

 

[Applefarmer]

yes the mystery of the rifle sighted ic barrel being a tack driver compared to the over and under with the ic barrel and bead front sight. Sarcasm dripping in case your wondering for some.

Over and unders have and will continue to be used effectively as long as the shooter takes the time to practice with said shotgun and get to know it and his own limitations.

 

[Cintax]

Thank you for the responses so far.

Usually deer shotguns have rifle sights on them, and sometimes rifled barrels. An O/U isn't going to work all that well with slugs, assuming that's what you'd use. I can't comment on turkey hunting.

I wasn't sure what to use. I think slugs or buckshot will get the job done equally well though.

Assuming you get interchangeable choke tubes I'd be quite comfortable with it.

I have decided that, apart from a single shot .410, I won't buy a shotgun without interchangeable choke tubes. All of the ones in my original post do have changeable chokes.

yes the mystery of the rifle sighted ic barrel being a tack driver compared to the over and under with the ic barrel and bead front sight. Sarcasm dripping in case your wondering for some.

Over and unders have and will continue to be used effectively as long as the shooter takes the time to practice with said shotgun and get to know it and his own limitations.

This is true. I am hoping to spend quite a bit of time behind the trigger. I would like to take a try at clay and skeet shooting in the summer to improve my aim.

 

[TheTooner]

Slugs, especially from a rifled barrel, generally have longer effective range than buckshot, but buckshot is deadly within its limits. If you get an over/under for other hunting a rifled barrel isn't on the menu. Being able to swap barrels for the purpose is a great advantage for the pump-action.

As to Stoegers, they have those guns made for them. The o/u and sXs models are by E.R. Armantino of Brazil. I'm not sure if the pumps are also made there. E.R. Armantino markets the doubles under their own brand Boito. I'm not sure if anyone brings them to Canada as Boitos, but they have been sold in N.America and I have a Boito A-680, a sXs. It works as well as it should for a low-priced utilitarian gun and I am satisfied with that. I think the Stoegers are better finished. If you get into to shooting a lot of clays you will probably want to upgrade and if you get into competition I am sure you will want to upgrade, but the Stoeger will sell secondhand in that case. Not a bad start for your stated purpose.

 

[Cintax]

Thank you for your response.

Slugs, especially from a rifled barrel, generally have longer effective range than buckshot, but buckshot is deadly within its limits. If you get an over/under for other hunting a rifled barrel isn't on the menu. Being able to swap barrels for the purpose is a great advantage for the pump-action.

The interchangeable barrel is one of the things I actually like about pump shotguns. I have been considering combo kits because of the versatility of having two or three barrels. Usually they are fully camouflaged and I'm not a fan of all that camo. I know sounds a bit ridiculous considering my purpose, but there are also two barrel kits that are just wood and blued so its not out.

As to Stoegers, they have those guns made for them. The o/u and sXs models are by E.R. Armantino of Brazil. I'm not sure if the pumps are also made there. E.R. Armantino markets the doubles under their own brand Boito. I'm not sure if anyone brings them to Canada as Boitos, but they have been sold in N.America and I have a Boito A-680, a sXs. It works as well as it should for a low-priced utilitarian gun and I am satisfied with that. I think the Stoegers are better finished. If you get into to shooting a lot of clays you will probably want to upgrade and if you get into competition I am sure you will want to upgrade, but the Stoeger will sell secondhand in that case. Not a bad start for your stated purpose.

You know I thought they looks exactly alike. Looks like the Boito equivalent is called a Miura and seems Epps even has some in stock. I might stop in on my way home from work and see how the finish looks. You're comments about getting a better gun later is why I was thinking about getting a higher end but used gun.

 

[Johnn Peterson]

Thank you for your response.



The interchangeable barrel is one of the things I actually like about pump shotguns. I have been considering combo kits because of the versatility of having two or three barrels. Usually they are fully camouflaged and I'm not a fan of all that camo. I know sounds a bit ridiculous considering my purpose, but there are also two barrel kits that are just wood and blued so its not out.



You know I thought they looks exactly alike. Looks like the Boito equivalent is called a Miura and seems Epps even has some in stock. I might stop in on my way home from work and see how the finish looks. You're comments about getting a better gun later is why I was thinking about getting a higher end but used gun.

A 'slight' variation of what you have in mind perhaps, but here's what I have. A Brno ZH-304, 7x57R/12ga. in one set of barrels and the other, 12ga./12ga.

 

[looch]

Although I love the looks of an o/u, I can't shoot one for beans. Seriously. Also, in a tight duck blind the extra room needed to break it open can be an issue.

 

[Ardent]

You can absolutely use a double anywhere you'd use a pump, and equally successfully as well, the one thing you give up being rifled barrels (the RBL Professional aside). In fact I prefer them, as a double's weight distribution is far better than a pump, they handle better, and are very easy to render immediately 'safe' in the field; just open the action with your one hand via the thumb lever to drop the barrels. You can hunt just swell with smoothbores and rifled slugs as well.

One strong word of caution here: Avoid the Stoeger and the likes like the plague. I'm very serious, they are junk. You'll read positive reviews and comments, but unfortunately these are likely people who just aren't that familiar with shotguns. There are two guns in particular I'd recommend near your budget, used, and those would be the Ruger Red Label and the Browning Citori. I'm a Ruger guy, but the Browning is likely even the better of the two. The Ruger will likely last about a half dozen generations though mind you as well and I prefer the lines and stainless receiver, I myself would choose it. A used Red Label or Citori is going to be several times the gun as the Stoeger, and that's putting it mildly. I've shot the Stoeger hands on and it's a crude, clunky piece with poor regulation. About what you'd expect at the price new.

Go for the double, there are a host of benefits, like short overall length for the barrel length given no action length, far improved swing and handling over the field pumps, ability to select in 2 seconds which choke you want to use thanks to two barrels and two chokes, etc.

 

[Ardent]

Although I love the looks of an o/u, I can't shoot one for beans. Seriously. Also, in a tight duck blind the extra room needed to break it open can be an issue.

I'm actually in a similar boat, for some reason I shoot side by sides a lot better and they are my preference. They also have a much shallower opening angle of course and are easier to handle in tight quarters and while walking.

 

[Turkeyslayer 1300]

I would happily use my Franchi for any game in Ontario. It is choked SKT1/SKT2 and groups S&B slugs well enough at 50 and 100 yards. I have shot ducks,woodcock,pheasant and maybe 60 Canada geese with it. A little more choke would be nice for turkey hunting but the longest shot I've taken on any of the turkeys I've shot was 11 yards so choke hasnt entered into it, I tend to hold high so as not to blow the head off. It also has 2 3/4inch chambers.

OP I'd seriously consider looking for a Franchi Falconnet or an older Beretta, Tradeex normally has quite a few reasonably priced good quality European working guns and having one or both barrels threaded shouldn't add too much to the price.

 

[maynard]

In the $500-$600 range I would look for a good, slightly used 870 Wingmaster, forget about the 870 Express. If you want to put a rifled barrel on it for deer, pick up a used Express barrel on the EE for $150-$175.

 

[Kenny_G2]

I've shot a few deer with my o/u, but its not my first choice. I am good with slugs out to 75 yards with winchester rifled slugs. No turkey yet but i will in the near future. I like huntig with o/u because they are light and simple to use. Mine with the double trigger allows you to load one barrel with one load and the other with a different one (say buckshot and a slug) you canthen decide at the time you need to which barrel to spark up.

 

[Cintax]

Thanks for all the good responses!!

A 'slight' variation of what you have in mind perhaps, but here's what I have. A Brno ZH-304, 7x57R/12ga. in one set of barrels and the other, 12ga./12ga.

That is a nice looking firearm. How good are Brno firearms in terms of quality?

Although I love the looks of an o/u, I can't shoot one for beans. Seriously. Also, in a tight duck blind the extra room needed to break it open can be an issue.

I've never fired one, might be I fall into the same boat. I don't know anyone who owns one. I've fired a Remington 870 Express and Weatherby SA-459. Both were nice enough.

You can absolutely use a double anywhere you'd use a pump, and equally successfully as well, the one thing you give up being rifled barrels (the RBL Professional aside). In fact I prefer them, as a double's weight distribution is far better than a pump, they handle better, and are very easy to render immediately 'safe' in the field; just open the action with your one hand via the thumb lever to drop the barrels. You can hunt just swell with smoothbores and rifled slugs as well.

One strong word of caution here: Avoid the Stoeger and the likes like the plague. I'm very serious, they are junk. You'll read positive reviews and comments, but unfortunately these are likely people who just aren't that familiar with shotguns. There are two guns in particular I'd recommend near your budget, used, and those would be the Ruger Red Label and the Browning Citori. I'm a Ruger guy, but the Browning is likely even the better of the two. The Ruger will likely last about a half dozen generations though mind you as well and I prefer the lines and stainless receiver, I myself would choose it. A used Red Label or Citori is going to be several times the gun as the Stoeger, and that's putting it mildly. I've shot the Stoeger hands on and it's a crude, clunky piece with poor regulation. About what you'd expect at the price new.

Go for the double, there are a host of benefits, like short overall length for the barrel length given no action length, far improved swing and handling over the field pumps, ability to select in 2 seconds which choke you want to use thanks to two barrels and two chokes, etc.

I think you make some valid points with the benefits of an over/under. I am now considering just getting one in 20ga since 12ga seems like a lot for upland game.

I get what you are saying about the Stoeger but realistically, I can't afford to be spending $1000+ on a shotgun. Would a CA or Baikal offering, which is around the same price new, be a better choice?

I'm actually in a similar boat, for some reason I shoot side by sides a lot better and they are my preference. They also have a much shallower opening angle of course and are easier to handle in tight quarters and while walking.

This is a good point. I don't know if it will apply to be in terms of a duck blind as I'm not a fan of duck meat so I don't plan on hunting them. Then again my experience with duck has been at restaurants so really, I might be missing out.

I would happily use my Franchi for any game in Ontario. It is choked SKT1/SKT2 and groups S&B slugs well enough at 50 and 100 yards. I have shot ducks,woodcock,pheasant and maybe 60 Canada geese with it. A little more choke would be nice for turkey hunting but the longest shot I've taken on any of the turkeys I've shot was 11 yards so choke hasnt entered into it, I tend to hold high so as not to blow the head off. It also has 2 3/4inch chambers.

OP I'd seriously consider looking for a Franchi Falconnet or an older Beretta, Tradeex normally has quite a few reasonably priced good quality European working guns and having one or both barrels threaded shouldn't add too much to the price.

I have been looking at Tradex and I saw a Franchi autoloader for a good price. I really dislike the idea of a fixed choke. not sure why, just want the versatility. I like the idea of being able to select between two chokes based on range.

In the $500-$600 range I would look for a good, slightly used 870 Wingmaster, forget about the 870 Express. If you want to put a rifled barrel on it for deer, pick up a used Express barrel on the EE for $150-$175.

The Wingmaster is what I would buy. I am told that newer ones aren't ad good as the older ones. Epps has Wingmasters in 20ga on for around $400 which seems low to me.

I've shot a few deer with my o/u, but its not my first choice. I am good with slugs out to 75 yards with winchester rifled slugs. No turkey yet but i will in the near future. I like huntig with o/u because they are light and simple to use. Mine with the double trigger allows you to load one barrel with one load and the other with a different one (say buckshot and a slug) you canthen decide at the time you need to which barrel to spark up.

Good points. Honestly, it's my brother who wants to hunt deer. I told him I'd go with him, so really, its not my planned use of the gun. I figure minute of deer withing 50-75 yards would be sufficient for that purpose.

 

[Brutus]

I've shot a few deer with my o/u, but its not my first choice. I am good with slugs out to 75 yards with winchester rifled slugs. No turkey yet but i will in the near future. I like huntig with o/u because they are light and simple to use. Mine with the double trigger allows you to load one barrel with one load and the other with a different one (say buckshot and a slug) you canthen decide at the time you need to which barrel to spark up.

I have similiar findings as yourself with one glitch. I most often use one of two shotguns for upland game or slug hunting. I am not a waterfowler btw.
My 20 gauge O/U gets used more and more often these days as it's a bit handier and safer to load/unload and all that I require for upland small game hunting. I have several pump guns in 12 or 20 gauge. If I foresee buckshot or slugs in my near future the 12 is my only dual purpose choice. The 20 gauge pump gun has an optional rifled barrel for sabots or full diameter slugs only.

 

[brybenn]

Baikals are well built crudely finished guns. They will not let you down. I love mine. I hunt everything with shotguns and dont feel undergunned by loosing A shell when I carry a double. Sxs or o/u. For bear I use a rifled barreled mossberg pump. Just practise with whatever you buy and try several brands of buck and slugs

 

[Cintax]

Baikals are well built crudely finished guns. They will not let you down. I love mine. I hunt everything with shotguns and dont feel undergunned by loosing A shell when I carry a double. Sxs or o/u. For bear I use a rifled barreled mossberg pump. Just practise with whatever you buy and try several brands of buck and slugs

Are you using a Baikal O/U or SxS?

 

[Beadwindow]

I am in the process of purchasing a shotgun and I'd like to get some opinions. Thinking about a new Stoeger Condor (12ga) or something higher end but used. Budget is the same, around $500-600.

I imagine they would be just fine for shooting other upland game and fowl but I'm not sure on the turkey and deer. How effective would a O/U shotgun be in terms of hunting turkey and deer?

I like the classic styling of the O/U type shotgun which is why I want one. I am not a big fan of pumps at all but if its the better option I'd go with it. In that case I am considering Weatherby PA-08, Remington 870 and Stoeger P-350.

Any suggestions?

Keep a careful watch of Tradeex's offerings. A few years ago I picked up a nice Spanish O/U (Sarriugarte) for $350 plus tax and shipping after finding out from other posters here that the base models of that brand were of Citori quality and only went up from there. The stock fit was a bit short for me, though I recently discovered shooting it at the trap range in the winter that it's perfect for when I'm wearing the clothes that I'd be hunting in.

I have since seen other interesting O/U shotugns for approx $4-500 that I probably would have purchased had I not already had the one I'm talking about. If Tradeex ever gets a bunch of Lanbar O/Us in, they're generally regarded as a decent low cost brand that's fine for regular hunting use.

Of course, you'll have to consider what chokes you'd want with an O/U, especially as many of the older, tighter choked guns are a no-go for steel shot. A high end but low priced model might be worth having tubes installed by a compentant gunsmith though.

 

[Ardent]

Baikals are even rougher than the Stoegers, in my opinion, though likely marginally better. The Browning Citori, and Ruger Red Label could be found in your price range used (or extremely close) you'd just be shopping awhile. This really is a case of better to spend $750 by waiting an extra month to save the coin than buying a piece of garbage now for 80% of that. As the saying goes, "I'm too poor to buy cheap tools." You'd never regret waiting and shopping for a quality gun, a Stoeger or Baikal and the likes might just put you off doubles altogether. A lot of guys try a junk double and come to the opinion doubles aren't for them, doubles are expensive to build so a $1500 one still qualifies as cheap in that realm. A $750 used Citori or Red Label, or a Tradex Beretta etc, is a flaming steal of a bargain.