Remington R1S disappointment

S

Sharps '63

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I like my blued Remington R1 so much, I bought one in stainless steel. It arrived to day and went right back unto the box!

Nice external finish with no tool marks, but it rattles like a GI beater 1911 when you shake it! P!ss poor slide to frame fit. Huge 'gaposis' when you look at it from the rear of the gun. No mag well bevel like the blued gun.

I contacted the dealer immediately and heard back PDQ. Seems once it leaves the store, it becomes a warranty issue. They are going to contact the Canadian importer on my behalf.

Seems odd that if I buy a gun off GunNutz or CATF, I get a three day inspection period, but if I buy a new gun, I'm on my own. Something's not right here ....

I couldn't be happier with my blued R1, but this was really a disappointment. This goes beyond poor quality control. Now we'll see if Remington customer service is up to par.
 
It's little wonder people are turning to Norinco, for fine firearms. American QC is starting to suck, badly. Remember when S&W revolvers were a sign of excellence? Not so anymore.
 
Sharps '63 said:
I contacted the dealer immediately and heard back PDQ. Seems once it leaves the store, it becomes a warranty issue. They are going to contact the Canadian importer on my behalf.
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At least they are trying to facilitate the "Warranty" work, although I suspect you will run into the "Does it work? Yes? No warranty then as it's not broken."

This definitely is a strange practice as I too have discovered, thanks go to EllwoodEpps for that. It turns out that very few if any dealers will take back a restricted after the sale, even if it is broken. "Sorry, Warranty" is the answer and being in Canada, warranty = S**T!

Is there some "All Sales Final" on any of the receipts??

I think it'd be great to get a list of dealers in Canada that would take back a problem-restricted after sale (within reason of course.)
I'd definitely try to shop only from them. I had always assumed they all would.

Can anyone confirm ever getting an exchange or money back on a bad restricted-buy from any dealer in Canada?

Is there a way to get some regulation on this? This is a serious problem.
 
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That's the reason I can't bring myself to buy a Remington or a Ruger sight unseen until they get their QC tightened up. There are enough reports of loose fitting and poor fitting parts that I just won't take the chance. You are basically stuck with it if it blows.
Now there are a few dealers I trust that would take them back if you were not happy, might have to eat shipping which would be close to $50 for both ways though....I still ain't ready to take that chance.
I just keep falling back to sticking with STI for 1911's.
 
Out of curiosity - was it Epps? This matches their not well publicized but widely known warranty policy.

FWIW, stainless guns are usually slightly looser than blued guns as stainless is more prone to galling as a material when rubbed together. Not a lot loose mind you, but factory tolerances would be a little looser.
 
How convenient, it's 100% all about the sale. We'll sell you something and take your money really quick but if there's an issue it's your baby! That and obviously some dealers (perhaps even all of them??) are shipping out their garbage to unsuspecting online/phone buyers just because they want you to go through the warranty hassle. Pathetic isn't it? Anyway, I would recommend that everyone request HIGH QUALITY photos from every angle of the firearm before you purchase sight unseen. If the dealer can't provide you with these then I'd walk away.
 
Hitzy said:
That's the reason I can't bring myself to buy a Remington or a Ruger sight unseen until they get their QC tightened up. There are enough reports of loose fitting and poor fitting parts that I just won't take the chance. You are basically stuck with it if it blows.
Now there are a few dealers I trust that would take them back if you were not happy, might have to eat shipping which would be close to $50 for both ways though....I still ain't ready to take that chance.
I just keep falling back to sticking with STI for 1911's.
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The SR1911 I had was loose, loose slide, loose bevertail, loose trigger. When I received the package I could hear the trigger clinging in the frame from inside the box. The dealer I bought it from didn't bother answering my emails or return my calls. Contacted Ruger, they told me it was within spec. Not my cup of tea, not the level of fit and finish I look for in a pistol... Disclosed the "normal" looseness and sold within a few hours on EE. Not buying from that dealer again...
 
Rivalen said:
The SR1911 I had was loose, loose slide, loose bevertail, loose trigger. When I received the package I could hear the trigger clinging in the frame from inside the box. The dealer I bought it from didn't bother answering my emails or return my calls. Contacted Ruger, they told me it was within spec. Not my cup of tea, not the level of fit and finish I look for in a pistol... Disclosed the "normal" looseness and sold within a few hours on EE. Not buying from that dealer again...
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I'm sure a lot of people in your situation are doing the exact same thing. I've seen many SR1911's on the EE.

To the OP, you obviously got a lemon cause I haven't heard anyone complain about the R1's being loose. Seems Remington fixed the issue's they were having with their initial run of R1's and improved from it.
 
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As an aside, I have high hopes for the Kahr Arms (Auto Ordnance) GI 1911 I just ordered from P&D. Will do a review and advise of any issues, but it's comparably priced to the Remington and is completely made in the USA. P&D Had these for $625 (came to just under $700 shipped), but most dealers are charging $750 and are carrying the (ugly) 100th anniversary model with big ugly frame engraving.
 
Claven2 said:
As an aside, I have high hopes for the Kahr Arms (Auto Ordnance) GI 1911 I just ordered from P&D. Will do a review and advise of any issues, but it's comparably priced to the Remington and is completely made in the USA. P&D Had these for $625 (came to just under $700 shipped), but most dealers are charging $750 and are carrying the (ugly) 100th anniversary model with big ugly frame engraving.
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looking forward to the review
 
No, the dealer was not Epps. I won't disclose the name pending the outcome.

I debated keeping the gun, beveling the mag well and having the slide tightened, but damn it, it's supposed to come that way! Remington did it right with my blued R1 and several R1S owners are reporting satisfaction with their ss guns.

Falling back on the warranty is a cop out for the dealers. What needs to be done is to have someone who knows what to look for examine each and every gun that comes into the shop. This requires a modicum of training, but not necessarily a qualified gunsmith. You don't have to be a chicken to recognize a rotten egg.

A NEW 1911 of any make should not rattle like a GI beater when 'shaken, not stirred'. I'm really curious as to how this is going to turn out ..... and I will post the outcome.

BTW- the magazines looked great! My blued R1 mags came with plastic bumper pads and followers. The R1S mags not and with SS followers.
 
Sharps '63 said:
Falling back on the warranty is a cop out for the dealers. What needs to be done is to have someone who knows what to look for examine each and every gun that comes into the shop. This requires a modicum of training, but not necessarily a qualified gunsmith. You don't have to be a chicken to recognize a rotten egg.
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That's an easy solution to proclaim, but far more difficult to enact. Consider that some of the larger stores see more than 1,000 firearms arrive from various distributors throughout any given month -- that includes rifles, shotguns, and hanguns of all sizes and shapes. Consider the volume of back orders in place, with customers awaiting delivery, transfers, and shipment out to them. Then consider the regular day-to-day sales that move inventory off the shelves. There is no way that any reasonably-sized retailer can inspect every single item that passes through their doors.

At some point the onus has to be on the manufacturer to produce products that meet the basic criteria for reliability, build quality, and value. When products fail to meet those criteria, they are sent back to the distributor or manufacturer for evaluation, which can result in repair, replacement or refund, at the manufacturer's discretion.

This is a long-standing bone of contention for retail shoppers, but it is a necessary method of providing warranties on these products. This is not an Ellwood Epps policy, or a Williams Arms policy, or a Wolverine Supply policy. This is an industry-standard policy that is strictly enforced by the manufacturers from whom licenses and agreements must be attained in order for any store to carry that company's products.

No doubt this response will generate more negative feedback than positive reviews, but the simple fact is that the industry itself has established these guidelines, and we as retailers must follow those procedures.
 
Some of my most accurate 1911's rattle. It doesn't mean the accuracy suffers. What matters is the barrel lock up. With your slide in battery try moving the barrel from the business end. It should be tight even if your slide to frame rattles.
 
Yeah the manufacturer is supposed to do that before the gun leaves for retail, its called quality control, something that seems to be lacking at Remington and Ruger. I also think part of it is that they are both new to the 1911 game. I don't think you would see these issues from tried and true 1911 makers.
I expect sloppy :bigHug::bigHug::bigHug::bigHug: in a Nork, not from US manufacturers.
 
Also, to throw it out there, none of my non-refurb GI 1911's rattle at all, they are very nicely fitted thanks very much. The only GI "rattletraps" I see are refurbs with mixed maker parts that were probably well used before being rebuilt.

That being said, barrle to bushing fit and bbl lug to slide fit are the determining factors for ACCURACY (if not feel). Slide the frame fit is a lot less relevant to how the gun will shoot. It does speak to overall product quality though and usually a loose slide will be followed up by other deficiencies in a poorly built gun.
 
Re: dealer checking of new 1911s - If it rattles, it ain't well fit! Hardly rocket science. Telling that to a customer would be fair.

When I bought my blued R1 from Epps, they had 6 listed on their web site. I asked for hand selection of one with a decent trigger pull. They culled me one and I've been pleased with it. That's customer service. I presume that none of these employees were qualified 1911 gunsmiths, or even familiar with the type.

I'm well aware that even beater 1911s are capable of acceptable accuracy. I remember $300 GI guns from Lever Arms that shot surprisingly well, and they were as loose as hell. So what? We're talking about a NEW civilian gun, not a surplus beater, no matter who made it. Rattling is unacceptable.

Those of you with R1s in stainless - did they come with beveled mag wells? If so, somebody had a bad day in QC at Remington as it is pretty obvious with even a casual inspection.
 
Sharps '63 said:
I like my blued Remington R1 so much, I bought one in stainless steel. It arrived to day and went right back unto the box!

Nice external finish with no tool marks, but it rattles like a GI beater 1911 when you shake it! P!ss poor slide to frame fit. Huge 'gaposis' when you look at it from the rear of the gun. No mag well bevel like the blued gun.

I contacted the dealer immediately and heard back PDQ. Seems once it leaves the store, it becomes a warranty issue. They are going to contact the Canadian importer on my behalf.

Seems odd that if I buy a gun off GunNutz or CATF, I get a three day inspection period, but if I buy a new gun, I'm on my own. Something's not right here ....

I couldn't be happier with my blued R1, but this was really a disappointment. This goes beyond poor quality control. Now we'll see if Remington customer service is up to par.
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Lets examine your "complaint". For starters, a super tight slide to frame fit translates into reduced reliability. Seeing as this is a copy/reproduction of a service pistol, the loose tolerances are likely to spec and appreciated. Second, there is no requirement for refund, exchange, or any other comfort when doing business. Buyer beware, if it sucks don't buy it again and/or don't deal with said vendor again. Return policies are a marketing ploy to attract business, they are not a tool to ensure a quality product.

TDC
 
Gimme a break .... "tight slide to frame fit translates into reduced reliability ... ", yadda-yadda-yadda .... This isn't my first experience with the type. And it is NOT a "copy/reproduction of a service pistol". Those are being marketed as such. The R1s come with: beveled mag well, lowered and flared ejection port, hi-viz sights, loaded chamber slot in the barrel hood and a long tang. Does that sound like a "service pistol" to you? What army did you serve with? The Hollywood Fusiliers?

That would explain the 'reduced reliability' of my Series '70 Gold Cup, still 'tight' after years of IPSC major loads when fitted with a Clarke 'Pin Gun' barrel, now back to stock and still 'tight'. And the reliability of my blued R1 with 'tight' slide to frame fit.

Tell ya what - special deal to those who think this sort of p!ss poor quality control is OK on a new pistol. You can have this R1S for what I paid for it plus S&H. Sound fair?
Should have good reliability and acceptable "service pistol" accuracy.

As for "buyer beware", I guess we know your ethics when it comes to gun sales. Had I had the opportunity to handle this gun in the shop, it would have been rejected out of hand. Rather difficult when it's coming from out of province. If I had bought it from an individual on GunNutz or CATF, the registration would have been cancelled forthwith and it would be on it's way back to the seller.

 
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