I typically don't as a matter of preference. My competitve pistols all have trigger jobs, etc., and I just feel better about minimizing undue stress. I have 2 beater 45ACP's that I do not let the slide slam as well....and that is a matter of habit. Another competitor/friend of mine slams his all the time...and has had no issues with his CZ, but hey, each to their own, and as I stated, "I FEEL BETTER" about not allowing the slide to slam....so no lost sleep is always welcome, regardless of the actual impact on the pistols.....
Ok to release a pistol slide without a round?
- Thread starter cadgo
- Start date
The "slide drop on an empty chamber will wreck your 1911" gets trotted out everytime a "tuned" 1911 has hammer follow problems. Heaven forbid that it might be because of a poorly done trigger job done. The hardened surface of the sear is very very thin and even light honing can break through. If that happens then the surfaces wear quickly as the sear bounces along the hammer hooks. The wear changes the angles of the cuts and sooner than later the hooks won't catch the sear and the hammer follows.
Is that accelerated if the slide is dropped when the gun is empty? Perhaps, but its just a matter of time before it happens.
At any rate, the trigger reset cycle happens as the slide is moving forward and is complete much before the slide comes to a rest, so if any damage is done (and I'm not convinced it can) it doesn't happen when the slide slams to a stop. The only opportunity for damage is when the slide starts to move forward and the hammer is released and the hammer is caught by the sear in the cocked position. That actually happens before a bullet is even picked up from the mag which is why I doubt the theory, but your gun your rules so do as you like.
The scary noise part of the slide slamming to a stop is after any damage can happen to the trigger bits. I suppose there could be problems with the barrel and slide fit on tight fitting guns.
Is that accelerated if the slide is dropped when the gun is empty? Perhaps, but its just a matter of time before it happens.
At any rate, the trigger reset cycle happens as the slide is moving forward and is complete much before the slide comes to a rest, so if any damage is done (and I'm not convinced it can) it doesn't happen when the slide slams to a stop. The only opportunity for damage is when the slide starts to move forward and the hammer is released and the hammer is caught by the sear in the cocked position. That actually happens before a bullet is even picked up from the mag which is why I doubt the theory, but your gun your rules so do as you like.
The scary noise part of the slide slamming to a stop is after any damage can happen to the trigger bits. I suppose there could be problems with the barrel and slide fit on tight fitting guns.
Letting you slide slam shut on the chamber (empty or not) is racking the slide. The proper way to rack a slide is to pull the slide back aggressively and allow it to go forward on its own, then repeat. This is done as not to develop the bad habit of 'riding the slide'. But; like I said, do what you want.
Modern fire control components are typically not surface hard. They are hardened tool steel all the way through. If you are using something with surface hardened parts I would suggest replacing them. It's not about sear wear; it's about sear damage, which occurs when the slide slams forward, transfers all of it's energy into the frame instantaneously, which imparts momentum to the fire-control components, sometimes causing the sear and hammer hooks to become momentarily out of full contact. With the hammer spring under constant load, it forces the hooks past the sear and the half-#### slams into the engagement surface of the sear. If this happens often enough, it will eventually damage the sear and it doesn't matter how hard it is.
When the gun fires, the slide begins to move back under recoil energy, carrying the barrel with it for a short distance until the link pivots enough (once barrel pressure drops) to unlock. The trigger disconnects in the first few fractions on an inch and immediately swings back into position under spring pressure to catch the hammer when it begins to pivot back after the slide moves forward. The trigger resets as soon as the shooter releases it. This will happen AFTER the gun has gone back into battery. I don't know anyone fast enough to pull a trigger twice before the gun cycles once. It isn't possible.
As I noted above, striker fired platforms don't work this way so sear bounce cannot occur. Single action Browning derived designs do. Some withstand these forces better than others, depending on geometry. The 1911 design is over a hundred years old. It has its limitations, granted, but with modern parts and manufacture and some careful hand-fitting, they are capable of absolutely phenomenal performance with astounding triggers. Inherent in the design is the intent that when going into battery under full load (wiping off the slide release for example) it will be stripping a round off the magazine, nosing it up the feed ramp, camming the nose down into the chamber and the extractor grove up under the extractor, which is under tension, and then feeding the round into the chamber, stopping the whole moving unit on the softer brass material rather than the frame. All of this absorbs, deflects and spreads impact energy over a longer period of time.
That's how it works, and that's why dropping the slide on an empty chamber is not recommended, especially on guns intended for target work.
Actually what Homer76 and RCloud are talking about make a lot of sense to me from a training aspect. These guys load and unload every day. If they were to ride the slide shut every day it would become ingrained in them almost unconsciously. In the event of a FTF or clearing a jam when it mattered most and you automatically rode or shoved the slide forward under stress it could be a problem that could result in having to put faith in your armor...{not good!}
On the other side of the argument is a guy like me...I don't load and unload my guns daily. I have competed in matches like steel plate challenge which will most likely be the most "stress" {time} that I'll ever encounter. In a few of these matches I did encounter issues that had to be cleared and I instinctively did so no problem. I also never drop the slide on an empty chamber, but then again I don't clean my guns daily...if I did, would I have out of instinct rode the slide and possibly lock up the gun? Perhaps, and that's why Homer76 and RCloud are trained in the manner they are.
Did that make sense?
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument....
lol
As silly as this topic is, I'm glad that you, RCloud and a few others in this thread are out there using their guns the way they were built to be used.
If I eased the slide forward in front of any of my buddies I'd expect a kick in the azz, and would return the favour if they did it!
Yup, clear as mud.
When I said "buddy" I wasn't referring to RCloud. I was making fun of the guy RCloud was replying to, because that guy doesn't understand what racking a slide means, but felt compelled to inform us all that RCloud has a reading comprehension issue.
Did that make sense?
no...
I'm yanking your chain...everything received and understood.Firearms training has come a long way in the 13 years I have been working. Take the admin load for example. We were taught to load the pistol, place it in our holster and then pop the mag out of the pistol while in the holster to top up the magazine with one more round. Now we are encouraged to draw from the holster, perform a reload and then do a tac reload to place a fully loaded magazine into the pistol. Once we are holstered we then top up the other mag and place it in a mag pouch. This gives us extra practice at the start of each shift. It's all about muscle memory and developing good habits.
Personally, I don't do it on any of my 1911's. Or my single stack Star 9mm. Or my BHP MkIII's.
I do however do it with my old 2nd gen Glock 22 .40 cal which is exactly like one I carried for many years.
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NAA.
Personally, I don't do it on any of my 1911's. Or my single stack Star 9mm. Or my BHP MkIII's.
I do however do it with my old 2nd gen Glock 22 .40 cal which is exactly like one I carried for many years.
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NAA.
How many times have we seen this thread before??? Lol
Myself personally, never let the slide go on an empty chamber.
At my club there are one or two pistol handsy guys there, who walk up to the rack and just pick up guns
they want to look at, they have no shame and dirty looks do nothing to dissuade them.
They also like to let the slide snap forward. This results in a few prompt words to the effect of "don't ever touch my guns again!"
I will recount one brief anecdote, a member had his $2500+ STI on the rack, one of the handsy twins got ahold let the slide go, you have
never seen someone go so red in the face.
