Clear-cut logging in Ontario Farmland BAD FOR HUNTERS!!

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knightcc

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Hi Everyone

I am both a farmer and a hunter and I live in Chatham-Kent. Everywhere west of Oshawa has a clearcutting bylaw that prevents clearcutting. Chatham-Kent does not have a bylaw and we are working to get one. I am not a tree hugger, I am a hunter and a farmer. My 90 acres of combined woodlots will never be clear-cut. However, other landowners (especially foreign ones) are clearcutting our landscape at an alarming pace. We lost over 1000 acres in 2012 and are on pace to lose 2500 acres in 2013. If this keeps up, they will get rid of controlled deer hunts and limit archery hunts. Terrible for all of us as hunters as it sets a precedent for other parts of Ontario.

We need your help. We are working on a compensation program for farmers who keep their woodlots intact. Below is an online petition that I hope you will sign and show your support for keeping our woodlots green and providing habitat for whitetails, turkeys and waterfowl. Thanks for your help!! PM me with questions and spread the word to other hunters. This is a huge issue for us all.

Link to petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-municipality-of-chatham-kent-pass-a-woodlot-preservation-by-law


Thanks
Chris
 
clear cuts are never really good, cause soil erosion, etc

if they were smart they would leave plenty of patches
 
Hi Everyone

These aren't clearcuts like in BC. This is Iowa/Illinois type corn and soybean farmland. DU and Nature Conservancy are involved in the fight.
 
Hard to call farm land a farm, if you can't plant crops on it, eh?

Around the Comox Valley, some years back, a cordless drill and a bottle of 2-4-D were the tools of choice. Drill a hole in the root, pour, depart, and leave your neighbor on the hook to deal with the now dead tree.
A lot of real estate got upgraded from "potential ocean view" to "view" that way.

Copper nails work too. Handy for posting "no cutting" signs".

Buy the land. Then you get to deal with the headaches of having size dozen different groups of people tell you how you should run YOUR place.

Maybe if the owners fenced it in and dumped a truckload or three of pigs in there...

Good on yer for the compensation program. Better than getting nothing, for burying your life's savings into a farm.

If it wasn't obvious, I'm pretty much in favor of giving first decision what happens to land, to the owner.

Cheers
Trev
 
Its your property, do as you wish if it harms none. We as gun owners should know what it's like to have government regulate private property. The bush land is worth about 1500 an acre, farmland is 10000. If I have 30 acres of bush why shouldn't I be able to increase the value. This is my land, these are my trees. The bush is dieing from disease, firewood is cheap because of it. Mine produces no income for the farm but costs thru taxes. Why don't you rent the bush from me for the same as farmland, 300 per acre.

This is the next step of the conservation authorities controlling your land. Next it is meters on wells. I paid for it, not you. All the organization above are anti private property. Before you sign, read. These antis are no different then the ones we fight everyday. The government can control and regulate everything according to them
 
pikesroad said:
Its your property, do as you wish if it harms none. We as gun owners should know what it's like to have government regulate private property. The bush land is worth about 1500 an acre, farmland is 10000. If I have 30 acres of bush why shouldn't I be able to increase the value. This is my land, these are my trees. The bush is dieing from disease, firewood is cheap because of it. Mine produces no income for the farm but costs thru taxes. Why don't you rent the bush from me for the same as farmland, 300 per acre.

This is the next step of the conservation authorities controlling your land. Next it is meters on wells. I paid for it, not you. All the organization above are anti private property. Before you sign, read. These antis are no different then the ones we fight everyday. The government can control and regulate everything according to them
Click to expand...

We are trying to come up with a land rent system and a tax credit system for landowners. I AM A LANDOWNER AND A FARMER. I am also a responsible steward of the land. If everyone had the same views you have there wouldn't be a tree left in SW Ontario. Guys with this same view, cut down their woodlots and then go ask to hang a treestand in someone else's.
 
knightcc said:
We are trying to come up with a land rent system and a tax credit system for landowners. I AM A LANDOWNER AND A FARMER. I am also a responsible steward of the land. If everyone had the same views you have there wouldn't be a tree left in SW Ontario. Guys with this same view, cut down their woodlots and then go ask to hang a treestand in someone else's.
Click to expand...
AND SO AM I. But I don't want you telling me what I can do with my property. You forcing me to maintain a bush lot because you like the look of it if BS. I like the look of purple but I don't make you paint your barn that colour. Why should I be force to keep my lot if it severs me no purpose? My should I not increase the value of my property? Because you like the look of a bush on a farm. When farmers heated their houses with wood they needed a bush, that time is gone. Just like most fudds people can't stand change. They want to force the younger generations to follow their old rules or make new ones to protect their old ways. You were able to do with your property as you see fit, why shouldn't the next generation? Maybe because you think your wiser and smarter? Just like the government.

You have brought in rules for no sub dividing farmland so the younger generation had to move to the cities. Mega farms are being made because you tried to preserve farmland and left it unaffordable for the next generation. Foreign companies are buying the mega farms and turning them into farmland, so be it.

You want to preserve it buy it or rent it. If not leave me alone!
 
So the idea is that logging gets banned, and my taxes rise in order for guys in Southern Ontario to have better hunts?
 
i agree, why shouldnt they be able to clear every tree off the property? theres no law against it and its their land. the deer will adapt, its all corn and soybeans. seen plenty of deer in corn feilds that lived there because it provided food and shelter.
 
knightcc said:
Hi Everyone

I am both a farmer and a hunter and I live in Chatham-Kent. Everywhere west of Oshawa has a clearcutting bylaw that prevents clearcutting. Chatham-Kent does not have a bylaw and we are working to get one. I am not a tree hugger, I am a hunter and a farmer. My 90 acres of combined woodlots will never be clear-cut. However, other landowners (especially foreign ones) are clearcutting our landscape at an alarming pace. We lost over 1000 acres in 2012 and are on pace to lose 2500 acres in 2013. If this keeps up, they will get rid of controlled deer hunts and limit archery hunts. Terrible for all of us as hunters as it sets a precedent for other parts of Ontario.

We need your help. We are working on a compensation program for farmers who keep their woodlots intact. Below is an online petition that I hope you will sign and show your support for keeping our woodlots green and providing habitat for whitetails, turkeys and waterfowl. Thanks for your help!! PM me with questions and spread the word to other hunters. This is a huge issue for us all.

Link to petition:

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-municipality-of-chatham-kent-pass-a-woodlot-preservation-by-law


Thanks
Chris
Click to expand...

Although I am not a tree hugger, I appreciate the value of trees and practice responsible wood lot management. I could never agree to petitioning or in any way demanding my will through a financially/violently oppressive government, or any other way. Farmland in your area is very valuable for the crop that can be grown: Around here, so much ground is unfit for growing crops, so I can afford to keep a well managed forest. Farming isn't a lucrative way to make a living and I don't begrudge a farmer seeking ways to improve that. I especially resent know nothing hippies (over paid, under worked) from the city forcing their regulations on us (and infecting our surroundings with their socialist bent)

Look at it this way: You intend on preserving your bush. Deer will need someplace to bed after gorging themselves on the surrounding crops - Enjoy the ever increasing hunting opportunity your bush will provide.
 
As a forester it is tough to know where to start with this thread.

Clearcutting (CC) is not always a bad thing as it is intended to mimic large scale natural disturbance (fire, wind, etc). Many forest types and tree species (most boreal forest species) will only renew through large scale disturbance (clearcutting, fire, wind). They will only renew and grow properly in open and direct sunlight. CC doesn't have to lead to erosion or impacts on water quality if planned and executed properly, which is my job. I have helped CC thousands of hectares of forests in northern Ontario and all of it is growing back as a young healthy forest.

SW Ont forests and hardwood tree species are generally not suited to clear cutting - pine, spruce and poplar stands would be an exception. Oak, hickory, elms, ash, maple, walnut, etc are best managed through selection or shelterwood harvesting, some trees need more sunlight to renew over others. Values for these species are maximized if the woodlot is properly managed with the fundamental aspect being that you go in and remove just enough trees to stimulate regeneration and remove the poor quality trees (except for wildlife trees) first. This requires an experienced tree marker and a landowner that can appreciate the long-term benefits. Thats the ideal way, however the landowner has the final say. As a professional forester I have an obligaton to give them the best advice I can based on the trees and forest stands characteristics and my associations code of ethics.

CCs in SW ont may also be due to a government eratication program for the Emerald Ash borer (EAB). All Ash in a wide swath through SW Ont were removed and burned in an effort to stop this invasive species, it failed, mostly due to the moving of firewood. EAB is now throughout most of Ontario and will keep spreading until most of the ash have been killed, just like dutch elm disease.

WRT the petition, I wouldn't sign it as worded. Its objective is to limit tree harvesting to just culling for firewood, which is not good forest management. There is nothing wrong with harvesting healthy trees, with proper planning and execution, to make timber products and make money for the landowner. Trees don't live forever and if managed properly will renew into a younger healthier stand.
 
I don't agree with putting a stop to timber harvesting nor do I agree with telling landowners what they can or can't do with trees on their land...I am 110% for this country coming up with some habitat retention on privately owned lands incentive/compensation type of program. It is still years away though I am afraid....we still have alot of habitat to lose before more people get the hint.

It's a good topic to bring awareness to OP.
 
This:
pikesroad said:
You want to preserve it buy it or rent it. If not leave me alone!
Click to expand...

I don't think it is necessarily an either/or choice, but I would rather live in a society that respects property rights and doesn't use the legislature to rob one group for the benefit of another than one with lots of nice hunting land.
 
This is a huge dilemma but a government programme is probably the only avenue whereby habitat integrity can be maintained at as high as level as possible in farming areas. Yes that means tax money. In the most general of terms species diversity is the most important aspect of any ecosystem. The more diverse, the more stable. Basic stuff. If you buy into existing farmland which has a "protected" hardwood area that should be reflected in the asking price and any taxation thereafter for eg. You as a landowner should suffer no financial loss because you are providing a vital and necessary service to the same environment we all need to exist. Major can of worms. Private land ownership rights, which I firmly stand behind and the basic necessities of life. My uncle's farm (his family since 1840) was about 180 acres. The half that was bush provided the building materials for his operation. That is one of the reasons these stands of bush were still there after hundreds of years of farming. They had purpose. The wildlife refuges they provided were just a welcome bonus. These hardwood stands, that need to continue to be managed as such, have to provide the owner with a reason for them to exist. Otherwise he is not being compensated for the service he is providing to his community. That is unfair. They do not exist by themselves for uninitiated but require attention which means time and money which is another factor. Paying the mortgage on a piece of property that has no financial return and contains valuable hardwood timber is an easy business decision.
 
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