Norc 1911 in 7.62x25

Ganderite

Ganderite

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Oh happy days!! A new gun project actually worked out well.

I bought 3 of the latest version of the Norinco 1911 in 9mm. One came form another CGNr who had invested money in custom parts and it shot well. The other two were bought new and they shot very poorly. I was disappointed because the Norc 1911s in 45 (4 of them) shot accurately right out of the box. All they needed were better sights and trigger jobs.

I asked Rodger Kotanko of DARK to put a new barrel and new sights on one of the poor 9mms, and it now shoots very well.

That left me with one poor shooting 9mm. I bought a 7.62x25 kit for it. This consists of a new barrel, a new bushing and a pair of 38 Super 1911 mags. The barrel needed minor fitting by Rodger and the bushing needed a light lap job to allow the barrel to cam down. The barrel looks very heavy since the hole in it is only 30 cal.
The sights are stock Norc 1911.

The first time I tried to shoot it with milsurp ammo I discovered the hammer spring was not heavy enough to ignite the primers. A heavier hammer and mainspring is on the way from Wolf.

Today I made up some ammo for it with some commercial primers and shot it. I have some 30 cal bullets ordered for it but could not stand the wait, so made up a few rounds with 312” bullets intended for 32ACP. They looked a bit fat in the case neck, but chambered ok.

The fixed sights are about right and it shoots like a dream.
1911TOK3.jpg


The only glitch with this set up is that standard 7.62 ammo will not fit the mag. It is too long. A ran a bucket of milsurp threw a seater die and pushed the bullets a bit deeper to an OAL of 1.250” These now fit the 38 Super mag.

1911TOK4.jpg


1911TOK1.jpg


1911TokMag.jpg
 
Now THAT's COOL!!!

Nice gun, awesome project, thanks for posting! (I just got my first 1911 in 45... It's a norc to!)

Cheers
Jay
 
How far did you need to squeeze them down for the surplus stuff? I ask because if it was more than about .010 to .015 you will have raised the chamber pressure by a significant and possibly amount. If the rounds were near to the pressure limits for the ammo at their supplied length you may have created a dangerous overpressure situation.

Other than that I really like the idea of this. The concept is spot on. It's just a shame that the stock 7.62x25 needs to be fed through the die to make it fit.

The perfect answer is likely to reload your own as you've started doing.
 
Yeah, that Czech stuff is already hot to begin with. I'd be cautious....might be a better idea to pull the bullets, measure the powered in a few to see what the load is, and take it down a grain or 2 before squashing them.
 
Powder charge? I have been making plinking ammo for my new polish Tok by pulling the bullet and re-throwing he powder charge, dropping it from 10 gr to 8 gr. This is as low as i can go and still have the pistol cycle. As a result, my thrower is accumulating some surplus powder.

So when it came time to make up these test rounds, I just fed the cases the 8 gr if milsurp powder from the thrower. It obviously works well. I did not Chrony the results, since I have no intention of using this power for handloads.

To make the milsurp fit the mag, I have to seat the bullets about a 100 thou deeper. I was wondering if this would have a significant impact on pressure, so I Chronyed both lengths. The increase in velocity was very small - 25 fps - tops.

However, I think my plans are changing. First, the Polish Tok shoots milsurp so well, I will use it as the milsurp shooter. Probably with the reduced powder charges.

To make the 1911 shoot milsurp i will have to add a more powerful hammer spring and this might make a fabulous trigger heavier. I have two flavours of cheap bullets on order. Berry's 110 gr plated from Marstar and 115 gr lead from R & R. Since the pistol obviously want to shoots accurately, I think the next step will be to develop an accurate and mild handload. The existing hammer spring fires reloaded primers just fine.

I wasn't aware of such a kit. The kit only works on a 1911 9mm frame, because of the extractor configuration.
 
any chance i would be able to a pm with info where to find the conversion barrel/kit? very cool project, i wonder if just taking off some length of the bullet from the milsurp ammo without pressing it would solve the length issue?
 
My kit came from Epps.
Included was a barrel with attached link, bushing, and spring. No mags.
Price was about 150 bucks.
My barrel has no chamber markings at all. it shoots very well
Not a drop-in kit. Barrel must be fitted to the slide. I used my mill to cut the ejector relief, although the job could be done with Dremel/file.
If your kit came with the mags, it's a pretty sweet deal.:)

Ganderite said:
Kit is available for J & G in USA for about $185.
Click to expand...
 
Mags were extra. About $20 each.

I get the impression that my kit is the second version. Don't know what changes were made. No extractor cut was required, but that would be a small thing if it was needed. It cost me about $60 to have a skilled gunsmith fit the barrel. Well worth it.

Does Epps have more of these kits?
 
They might be related. The muzzle cuts and finish appear identical to mine.

I got my kit from Epps a few months ago. Epps had no kits in stock, some came in within a couple days of my order.

Ganderite said:
Mags were extra. About $20 each.

I get the impression that my kit is the second version. Don't know what changes were made. No extractor cut was required, but that would be a small thing if it was needed. It cost me about $60 to have a skilled gunsmith fit the barrel. Well worth it.

Does Epps have more of these kits?
Click to expand...
 
Did either of you get any mags to shoot the surplus ammo without modification? Im interested in one of these kits for an STI 9mm I have but if it wont shoot the cheap surplus ammo without having to compress every round its something I may have to reconsider.
 
The milsrp ammo is 1.350" The 9mm mag has a spacer in it, so it is much too short. That is why I use the 38 Super, but it requires ammo to be seated deeper. 38 Super has a max OAL of 1.280" , abot the same as the 45CP.
 
Since you're re-throwing the powder that will be removing a lot of the pressure peak.

Yet despite the fact that you measured the velocity increase at a paltry 25'ish fps the reduced volume in the cartridge is likely generating more pressure than the stock rounds shot in a proper Tokarev. It's just that the pressure falls faster as well since there's less powder.

But all in all it's likely not going much over max SAMMI pressure due to the reduced charge.

My fear would be that someone would simply mash the bullets deeper on the stock rounds instead of pulling the bullets and dropping smaller powder charges. Hopefully this thread informs them before they consider such a thing.

So... now that all the safety Nazi stuff is out of the way how's it feel to shoot it? I know that the .38Supers tend to be a little snappy sort of like a .40S&W. Are these modified 7.62x25's in the same sort of shock and snap neighbourhood?
 
The milsurp ammo that was 25 fps faster was full charge ammo with the bullet pushed in about 100 thou.

The ammo with 2 gr reduced powder charge dropped from 1525 fps to 1200 fps.

The full power ammo feels about the same as 9mm.

The reduced power stuff feels much milder. I can hit a steel plate 3 times before it falls, and I am a rookie. That was with a Tok. the 1911 is heavier, so probably even faster.

I have not run any experiments to see if I can seat the bullets any longer than 1.250. It looks like I can.
 
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