HK .45 Mark 23 - buy it or not?

If you want one and can afford it, buy it.

Personally I have never seen the point of them and everyone I have spoken to that was actually issued one preferred other guns for work use. Granted that is only a few guys, but the complaints were all the same and, of course, totally unsurprising: 'it's huge and pointless and we have to carry a ton of #### already, and it's still just a handgun'. When it was first developed it made some sense as light and laser technology were totally primitive, and CQB was kind of...theory based, in a way that changed substantially after the US spent a decade in a shooting war at close range.

Although I'm told it was popular for a really specific application: dive teams who did beach landings, then set up hides from which they might need to shoot quietly, through light cover. The heavy .45 does well through intermediate materials, suppresses well, and the mk23 wasn't bothered by dives and beach landings. Everybody not involved in that particular tasking just went to the 226. Most of the mk23s were almost never used, according to everyone I have ever spoken to on the subject.

The program was maintained in part because it allowed greater allotments of .45acp...to be used in 1911s. The units which had used the mk23 have pretty much all dumped it, to my knowledge. The replacement is an HK45c...that "C" should tell you something IMO.


Anyway if you want a massive, durable, accurate pistol that shoots a round that is good through intermediate barriers, but otherwise maybe 2-5% more effective than a 9mm (or equally effective on paper) that has a history of being developed for, then mostly hated or ignored by, a particular unit in the US Navy, well, this is the one to buy.
 
Dammit, I remember drooling over this gun when I was still in adolescence, long before I ever got my RPAL. I won't be able to afford one anytime soon, but you should get it so people like me can live vicariously through you.

You are evidently a young fellow because they were issued to US counterparts (Navy seals - special ops) in the second half of the '90s. Not witnessed by me but the boys actually took them for a swim once in a while. No such fun for Cdn divers. Some combat divers may chime to share the hardware they took down but I suspect nothing available to civilians except the few with PPALs.

Thanks for vote. If I decide to buy, I'll definitely brag about it once in a while.

Cheers
 
If you're a member of CTM, PM me and I'll bring it to the range. Did I mention that it's big?

Neither a CTM member nor a vampire (I like daylight :)). I drift Southbound to save pesos (cheap basta) and take that opportunity to ride the hog (noisy basta). Very generous offer, evidently you're a gentleman. Cheers.


If you want one and can afford it, buy it.

Anyway if you want a massive, durable, accurate pistol that shoots a round that is good through intermediate barriers, but otherwise maybe 2-5% more effective than a 9mm (or equally effective on paper) that has a history of being developed for, then mostly hated or ignored by, a particular unit in the US Navy, well, this is the one to buy.

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. Great info, love the summary, to-the-point.
Cheers,
 
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I saw a MK 23 a year ago or so for ~1800. I regret not buying it.

I find myself in the same boat of having some inexplicable desire to own one of these cannons.
 
Not even close, by long shot. Have you even fired one (not airsoft)? Lol

Yes, lanis has fired one, and "not airsoft" (WTF sort of comment is that?)!

Lanis owns a number of pistols, is a member at several clubs and is an excellent shot. He shot my Mk23 just over a year ago, he was impressed by it's lack of recoil, muzzle flip, but was more impressed by it's accuracy. In fact he was so impressed, he went out and bought a brand new one to add to his collection!!

I have owned and shot H&K USP .45, HK45, P7M8 and the Mk23. I just purchased a 9mm HK USP Sport, so yes, I like H&K products! Don't get me wrong, I own German Sigs, 1911's and.............................regret to admit it................Glocks!

The only pistol that I have shot which was more accuracte than my Mk23 was a Sig X-Five 9mm a fellow shooter let me try last summer (I just purchased my own Comp. X-Five I liked it so much!).

Some people say the Mk23 is big and heavy. It is approx. the same weight as a 1911. The pistol is long, but the grip (which IMHO is the only real concern when it comes down to hand size/fitment), fits my hand the same as my USP. The Mk23 is very well balanced, so when shooting it you don't even notice the length of the gun/slide.

A DE is a completely different animal. It is phyically larger and almost 2 pounds heavier than a Mk23. I own a DE and it barely fits my hands, it is heavy, front heavy, so it is nowhere near as well balanced and it is picky on what ammo you feed it. A Mk23 will feed any ammo through it.

H&K spent a lot of time and effort to design the Mk23 to fulfil the stringent US Navy requirements. The design, workmanship and built in durability is very evident when you compare it to a USP. I met a former Seal a couple of years ago (the son of a fellow I worked with in PA), he carried a Mk23 on all of his tours and it saw 'action'. He liked the gun so much he bought his own when he got out of the service.

UR2X3M4ME - If you have the 'toy' money available, and you want to own a unique, somewhat rare pistol that has an interesting history, which was designed and built by a 'true' firearms company, that has designed a large variety of small to large firearms. Just do it! BUY IT!
They are a 'dream' to shoot, they are accurate and will become more and more collectable as time goes on.
 
Please show me a video. You should consider going to the olympics.

And for the record, the desert eagle is roughly the same size as the MK23. Different grip and weight but almost same footprint...

...And for my record, Just cause it looks the same means nothing.. another invalid point. Actual weapons manipulation is another planet. Its not similar - its not even close with hand grip, its not even close with trigger pull, creep, sight line, recoil, etc ...blahh blahh balh whatever.

The DE in the safe has a round count of over 10,000 rounds and well over 22,000 with the Mark23 - I think Im somewhat qualified to assess & compare both.

Maybe if you would be qualified to read properly, you wouldn't waste your time arguing with me. Never wrote about manipulation, recoil or even trigger pull. They are similar in size, SIZE, SIZE.

BTW, nice 5m group. Try 25m
 
I have one and I love it, just be advised of a couple things.

- It's a showpiece at the range, expect to have people looking over your shoulder and asking questions. Also expect to make them smile by letting them shoot it.

- The finish will wear in a couple places, this is unavoidable. The bottom of the barrel and the top of the chamber will lose their finish over time.

If you can afford it, go for it. The only close second to this pistol is the USP Tactical, also a very nice gun and a bit smaller. It's still not a Mark 23 though.

mark23.jpg
 
Maybe if you would be qualified to read properly, you wouldn't waste your time arguing with me. Never wrote about manipulation, recoil or even trigger pull. They are similar in size, SIZE, SIZE.

BTW, nice 5m group. Try 25m

Read the other posters here about the DE - its NOT similar in size once its in your hand hand hand. lol. Did you actually just look at pics or actually compared the two in front of you ? Actually I dont really care I suppose.

5m is what was hanging on the wall. I have 10m 15m 25m 30m in slow fire that touch as well. Its not a difficult when one puts downrange the amount of projectiles I do.

Would you like to see that or would you like some lessons on how how how ?
 
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Wow! Really impressive. Do you give courses?

Do you not know how to bench shoot a pistol ? The laser on it helps tremendously. It will show if ive pulled the trigger properly. Mine has shot all sorts of ammo thru it inc. tailored handloads.

Also you will need your Mark 23 if you are to take shooting lessons. I suppose you can borrow mine if you dont want to wear yours out ;-)

DSC09722.jpg

sw4.jpg
 
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Read the other posters here about the DE - its NOT similar in size once its in your hand hand hand. lol. Did you actually just look at pics or actually compared the two in front of you ? Actually I dont really care I suppose.

5m is what was hanging on the wall. I have 10m 15m 25m 30m in slow fire that touch as well. Its not a difficult when one puts downrange the amount of projectiles I do.

Would you like to see that or would you like some lessons on how how how ?

Yes, I would like some lessons on how to shoot from a bench. Are you from Montreal?
 
Seeing at how rare this pistol was even before it was discontinued, how difficult is it to source replacement parts once the factory stuff starts wearing out? The supposed lack of civilian customer support is what always made me second guess a potential HK purchase.
 
Yes, lanis has fired one, and "not airsoft" (WTF sort of comment is that?)!

My comment was tongue in cheek, and based on the following:
lack of recoil, muzzle flip....

Out of all the .45s I have had, and some still own ( HK Mk23, S&W625, P220(s), G21sf, numerous 1911s, S&W645, M&P), the Mk23 had the worst muzzle flip, and the worst practicality of the lot.
All subjective of course. If the Mk23 blows your hair back, knock yourself out.
 
Seeing at how rare this pistol was even before it was discontinued, how difficult is it to source replacement parts once the factory stuff starts wearing out? The supposed lack of civilian customer support is what always made me second guess a potential HK purchase.

Tell me about this "lack of civilian customer service" HK has? Ever used it? Even tried? OR spouting off stuff that you heard on the net?

HK...all but 2 of their guns are made in Germany, and the 2 that are made in the USA are just assembled there. So in that sense, thing can take time...ordering parts IF they are coming from Germany. HK doesn't "think you suck and hate you" they have their own very strict rules in Germany about what is/is not sporting and what they can sell to the public/over seas. So again its not HK...its the German/European government's rules they need to follow. And that is before we even get into shipping rules/costs/times. Ever wonder how come things like CZ or Norinco can be stuck at the docks for weeks on end? Shipping over seas is not a fast and painless process at the best of times...and we are talking about shipping guns here, not Playstations.

Need a gun REPLACED or fixed...as in big issues, it can/WILL be done. Just takes time...just like all serving of guns in this country take.

Need small parts/extra? EASY...100s of sells in the USA and many ship to Canada...if not have someone like irunguns.ca bring them in LEGALLY for you. HK USA is more then helpful if you ask someone who has ACTUALLY USED THEM...not someone who is just repeating what Mr. Glock fanboy has been saying since the 90s about their service and knows jack all.

Civilians are only legally allowed to own a VERY small about of the products HK makes and sells...and we make up a very small portion of their sales so of course government, military and law enforcement sales and customers "come first" as that is where 99% of the money comes from but the civilians are FAR from being left in the dust.

Lastly...how many people are even needing work done on their HKs? They are not Sig Sauer (or Kimber!) the #1 warranty/replacement pistol in Canada. :). Don't believe me...talk to some store owners.
 
Tell me about this "lack of civilian customer service" HK has? Ever used it? Even tried? OR spouting off stuff that you heard on the net?

HK...all but 2 of their guns are made in Germany, and the 2 that are made in the USA are just assembled there. So in that sense, thing can take time...ordering parts IF they are coming from Germany. HK doesn't "think you suck and hate you" they have their own very strict rules in Germany about what is/is not sporting and what they can sell to the public/over seas. So again its not HK...its the German/European government's rules they need to follow. And that is before we even get into shipping rules/costs/times. Ever wonder how come things like CZ or Norinco can be stuck at the docks for weeks on end? Shipping over seas is not a fast and painless process at the best of times...and we are talking about shipping guns here, not Playstations.

Need a gun REPLACED or fixed...as in big issues, it can/WILL be done. Just takes time...just like all serving of guns in this country take.

Need small parts/extra? EASY...100s of sells in the USA and many ship to Canada...if not have someone like irunguns.ca bring them in LEGALLY for you. HK USA is more then helpful if you ask someone who has ACTUALLY USED THEM...not someone who is just repeating what Mr. Glock fanboy has been saying since the 90s about their service and knows jack all.

Civilians are only legally allowed to own a VERY small about of the products HK makes and sells...and we make up a very small portion of their sales so of course government, military and law enforcement sales and customers "come first" as that is where 99% of the money comes from but the civilians are FAR from being left in the dust.

Lastly...how many people are even needing work done on their HKs? They are not Sig Sauer (or Kimber!) the #1 warranty/replacement pistol in Canada. :). Don't believe me...talk to some store owners.

In a fairness, what I actually said was:

The supposed lack of civilian customer support is what always made me second guess a potential HK purchase.

But thanks for the tirade, I'll extract the bit which answers my question.
 
The problem in Canada with HK parts is the importer. It's real, and it's that simple, and as a matter of fact - not supposition, I have tried to use it, on behalf of customers and I hear from people who try use the 'support' of the importer regularly. If you need HK parts you can get them through Wolverine, from the US either direct or through an importer, even from Europe, just do not expect to get them through RNichols/FNSports. That wholesaler does not do even a reasonable job of supporting the products they sell - anyone who has attempted to deal with them in any capacity (I used to think they just didn't care about the stuff we ordered for civillians - but I've been told by guys in LE procurement it's the same for them) will tell you that. It's not just HK that suffers from this, for many years Taurus was something to avoid due to the 'support' of the same importer, fortunately for them they now also deal with a real importer who knows what service means. So Jeff is right, it's not HK.
 
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