Just me or has the milsurps EE really slowed down a lot...
- Thread starter flying pig
- Start date
Pictures are good, except when they are "will post pics later" and/or from 10 feet away.
"gun for sale, pics up later, I think it's Iranian or something $300 OBO"
Mods/admin, please delete that crap.
Every time I think about buying, I look at the trader rating, I don't think I've ever seen any negative comments [that I recall] ~ by the sounds of the number of people getting hosed and semi hosed, are we not doing our jobs by not leaving honest feed back, or is the negative feedback actually doing it's job & keeping these sellers off the EE?
So - I just went through every seller on the first page of the Milsurp EE, only 4 people had ratings of less than 100% [some were zeros] curiously enough only one of them was not "well known" ~ the other 3 have been dealing/trading for so long .04% doesn't matter.
"gun for sale, pics up later, I think it's Iranian or something $300 OBO"
Mods/admin, please delete that crap.
Every time I think about buying, I look at the trader rating, I don't think I've ever seen any negative comments [that I recall] ~ by the sounds of the number of people getting hosed and semi hosed, are we not doing our jobs by not leaving honest feed back, or is the negative feedback actually doing it's job & keeping these sellers off the EE?
So - I just went through every seller on the first page of the Milsurp EE, only 4 people had ratings of less than 100% [some were zeros] curiously enough only one of them was not "well known" ~ the other 3 have been dealing/trading for so long .04% doesn't matter.
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The other thing I do if I'm not familiar with the seller is look at their trader rating. I also will browse through their posts on the forum. If someone is shady or unknowledgable it will come out in their posts.
But if it's someone like Claven selling I would send the money no questions asked. Guys like Claven, Diopter, Smellie, Buffdog, riflechair ( I could go on and on but you get the idea) post so much knowledge and conduct themselves in a respectable manner on thus forum. If they say something is G or VG I 100% trust their assessment of the rifle being sold. Unfortunately the guys who muck around and play games are not regulars on the milsurp forum and have no idea of the caliber of the person selling an item, which to me is a shame.
Claven the items you post are always IMHO quality and with the pictures and descriptions you post their is NO reason why someone should ask for more info.
But if it's someone like Claven selling I would send the money no questions asked. Guys like Claven, Diopter, Smellie, Buffdog, riflechair ( I could go on and on but you get the idea) post so much knowledge and conduct themselves in a respectable manner on thus forum. If they say something is G or VG I 100% trust their assessment of the rifle being sold. Unfortunately the guys who muck around and play games are not regulars on the milsurp forum and have no idea of the caliber of the person selling an item, which to me is a shame.
Claven the items you post are always IMHO quality and with the pictures and descriptions you post their is NO reason why someone should ask for more info.
++1
Oh hells yea! If they don't have more than the required 10 posts to get into the EE I don't generally give a second look at them.
actually should they raise that to 25 or 50 posts?
Would it be useful to have a trader forum for serious community members? 500 or more posts? you can pretty much guarantee that no one will be dicking around in there. [that being said there always is one a-hole floating around
]
saskgunowner101
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- near Prince Albert
Would be nice, even if it were 100 posts. Are greeting posts included??, because I've noticed a heck of a lot of those kind from newer members.
I've seen a few 'just posting to get my 10 in' here and there from time to time... heck, I think I probably did that myself!
I am really warming up to the idea of a 500 or even 1000 post exchange ~ even if I don't qualify yet - keep em honest eh?
I am really warming up to the idea of a 500 or even 1000 post exchange ~ even if I don't qualify yet
- keep em honest eh?Then we have the seller who is selling a $2500.00 item with one or two lousy pictures and when asked for a couple more pictures gets all upset and NO TIME. $2500.00 with two pictures and "does not have the time" Guess what, I went elsewhere and did get the pictures and the item. I see he is now listed as a dealer.
Also on the feedback, I just had a real bad deal with a guy on a scope. Scope was damaged and several MAJOR flaws not listed or shown. Got the scope and send him an email that I'd like to send it back. "No three day inspection allowed", "Not a store" plus "you have probably damaged it yourself". Then no response to subsequent emails. A new lister on here and the name and handle is available to anyone who asks via PM.
This one will be getting negative feedback when I get the time as illness and other factors have not allowed me to put together what I want to put in the negative feedback. With his minimal feedback I suspect he will be back with another name and handle.
Also recently had another who "forgot to tell me the receiver was drilled and tapped" and "no return". "You should have asked." Name also available by PM.
Used to enjoy it here but it is becoming more of a crap shoot every day.
rant mode off....
not sure I would drop $2500 in EE, not without knowing the guy & having an inspection period. That's a bit too rich for me to risk.
Maybe if the sellers started tagging tire-kickers & non-payers, the deadbeats and lolli-gaggers will start getting ignored by the sellers and then the rest of the serious buyers don't have to pounce on something in fear of losing the deal. [It's happened to me, I was told I asked too many questions and then saw the item sit for 3 more days before it was removed]
BTW - PM me those user names, I 'have a list'
That was a nice score Nyles with the sling, etc. I saw it but was not in a possition to buy. Congrats - how about a write up?
I think if you look carefully and stay on top of things, some gems still come up from time to time. And its not just firearms - mags and other accroutements are showing up too. But definitely we see more of certain milsurps than others.
The last year especially has seen a lot of stuff come out of the closet and put onto the market. The repeal of the LGR was definitely good for that.
This happened for several reasons, the most important one being that many older people are selling off some of their collections or tiring of keeping them as safe queens.
We get cycles like this, off and on every 3-5 years.
Just wait until the cheap milsurp 8x57, 7.62x39, 7.62x54 etc dries up. The prices of those latest milsurps will drop like a stone, for a while. Then they will come back up again as new made ammo comes in to fill the vacuum.
Watch and see what will happen to handguns if we can ever persuade them to relax their rediculous calibre and length prohibitions.
I have been collecting and shooting since I was 6 years old. I collected and shot everything that went bang or could be made to.
I loved the abundent milsurp that used to be available. My preferences in what I was going to buy, had a lot to do with the cheap ammo available. If you bought enough of it, you could pick up pistol ammo for a penny/round. Mind you, you needed to buy a half a dozen full pallets of each cartridge being offered at the time. Rifle ammo could be had for 2cents/round, again, only in mass quantities and you could guarantee, all of it was corrosive and some of it had to be broken up into components.
For instance, I really hated some of the 303 and 8mm that was dated from the thirties. It was usually not very consistent, not stored well or a lot of other things to worry about. I had a metal plate with appropriate neck and shoulder holes reamed into it and marked for what they were for. I would heat up this plate on a camp stove and insert the bullet end of the cartridge into its appropriate hole and melt the sealant in the necks so I could pull the bullets easily.
Of course, the cartridge case and primer would go for scrap brass, if they were brass. The 303 was a pain because it had to be burned to get rid of the cordite which was inserted into the case, before the case was formed.
The more recent surplus ammo is much more expensive but it's also much more reliable.
This happened for several reasons, the most important one being that many older people are selling off some of their collections or tiring of keeping them as safe queens.
We get cycles like this, off and on every 3-5 years.
Just wait until the cheap milsurp 8x57, 7.62x39, 7.62x54 etc dries up. The prices of those latest milsurps will drop like a stone, for a while. Then they will come back up again as new made ammo comes in to fill the vacuum.
Watch and see what will happen to handguns if we can ever persuade them to relax their rediculous calibre and length prohibitions.
I have been collecting and shooting since I was 6 years old. I collected and shot everything that went bang or could be made to.
I loved the abundent milsurp that used to be available. My preferences in what I was going to buy, had a lot to do with the cheap ammo available. If you bought enough of it, you could pick up pistol ammo for a penny/round. Mind you, you needed to buy a half a dozen full pallets of each cartridge being offered at the time. Rifle ammo could be had for 2cents/round, again, only in mass quantities and you could guarantee, all of it was corrosive and some of it had to be broken up into components.
For instance, I really hated some of the 303 and 8mm that was dated from the thirties. It was usually not very consistent, not stored well or a lot of other things to worry about. I had a metal plate with appropriate neck and shoulder holes reamed into it and marked for what they were for. I would heat up this plate on a camp stove and insert the bullet end of the cartridge into its appropriate hole and melt the sealant in the necks so I could pull the bullets easily.
Of course, the cartridge case and primer would go for scrap brass, if they were brass. The 303 was a pain because it had to be burned to get rid of the cordite which was inserted into the case, before the case was formed.
The more recent surplus ammo is much more expensive but it's also much more reliable.
johann_seb
Member
- Location
- Grande Prairie, AB
Aside from anecdotal evidence, though....how is it possible that we expect CGN to be any different than any other garage sale-esque buying experience elsewhere. We have one in my town, every year. The whole town, being a suburb of a larger community, has a garage sale on the one day. It is as it has always been - there are some good bargains, some low-ballers, etc. But commerce takes place, and none of it goes in the pocket of the federal gov't.
So it is here, I think. I've always resented a GST charged on non-new merchandise because I think its already been paid for those items. And in places like this, we escape the double-taxation bullsh*t that plagues all other transactions. Other than that, I bought a Savage 17 last week, and when I got to the guy's house, it was a different model than advertised with rust on the barrel. So it is here, all I need do is offer a lot less than he was asking, and walked away with the rifle. Your EE is not immune from #######s, lowballers, or ####### lowballers.
Matter of fact, the Internet makes it easier for them to hide.
So it is here, I think. I've always resented a GST charged on non-new merchandise because I think its already been paid for those items. And in places like this, we escape the double-taxation bullsh*t that plagues all other transactions. Other than that, I bought a Savage 17 last week, and when I got to the guy's house, it was a different model than advertised with rust on the barrel. So it is here, all I need do is offer a lot less than he was asking, and walked away with the rifle. Your EE is not immune from #######s, lowballers, or ####### lowballers.
Matter of fact, the Internet makes it easier for them to hide.
I think the term loballer deserves some airtime. What is a low baller? By way of example I had a decent colt 1911a1 up for sale a month ago. It was all colt but the slide was later than the frame. One guy pm'd me to "help me out" and point out the frame was Ithaca and it was therefore a "puttogether/bubba" and he'd take it off my hands for $550 shipped. It was listed for $1250.
Obviously I did not deign to even respond. Thanks pal, but I think I can id a 1940 colt frame, and anyway, I had it listed at refurb prices due to the slide. Was it worth pointing out that with a serialized matching slide it would have been a $2400+ gun? No.
There should be a cgn rule or etiquette guideline about how low a percentage you can offer before being a troll.
Obviously I did not deign to even respond. Thanks pal, but I think I can id a 1940 colt frame, and anyway, I had it listed at refurb prices due to the slide. Was it worth pointing out that with a serialized matching slide it would have been a $2400+ gun? No.
There should be a cgn rule or etiquette guideline about how low a percentage you can offer before being a troll.
Claven2, I understand your point, but what happens if I offer what the 450 dollar chromed Mosin is really worth? Or the 500 dollar Lee Enfield with no magazine?
As I said before, sellers have some quirky habits as well. Not all ads are as good as yours. A cgn rule (and we all know how evenly those are enforced) regarding how low you can offer just encourages the behaviour I mentioned above. Some sellers have acted like they are doing the world a favour by listing and want to power to leave negatives for tire kickers and photo collectors.
Many sellers post very scant ads, expect a buyer to turn over cash, personal information, and a PAL number, yet get upset when the person taking all the risk asks for more info.
In your case the ads are excellent, and the criticism deserved, but how do we differentiate between genuine offers and questions and the trolls?
Dispute resolution? I don' know.
As I said before, sellers have some quirky habits as well. Not all ads are as good as yours. A cgn rule (and we all know how evenly those are enforced) regarding how low you can offer just encourages the behaviour I mentioned above. Some sellers have acted like they are doing the world a favour by listing and want to power to leave negatives for tire kickers and photo collectors.
Many sellers post very scant ads, expect a buyer to turn over cash, personal information, and a PAL number, yet get upset when the person taking all the risk asks for more info.
In your case the ads are excellent, and the criticism deserved, but how do we differentiate between genuine offers and questions and the trolls?
Dispute resolution? I don' know.
The way I figure it, if you can't make low-ball offers, say, lower than 75% of the asking price, then the seller will simply get no offers and will eventually lower their pricing or withdraw the ad.
I'd like to see functionality where there is a drop-down menu where you (as seller) are forced to select a price (lots of ads get posted and moderated for having no price listed in a WTS type ad). Prospective buyers should have to select an offer price no less than 75% of that price. If it does not sell, after 7 days, the seller can BTT the ad with a new price, and so on.
Food for thought.
I'd like to see functionality where there is a drop-down menu where you (as seller) are forced to select a price (lots of ads get posted and moderated for having no price listed in a WTS type ad). Prospective buyers should have to select an offer price no less than 75% of that price. If it does not sell, after 7 days, the seller can BTT the ad with a new price, and so on.
Food for thought.
How about a mandatory template for WTS ads?
Bore: [Excellent/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor]
Drilled & Tapped: [Factory/Yes/No]
Bluing/Metal Finish: [Excellent/Refinished/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor/White]
Stock/Furniture Condition: [Excellent/Refinished/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor/None]
Stock/Furniture Damage: [Yes/No]
If Yes Specify: __________________
Price: ___________
Shipping included: [Yes/No]
Payment (select all that apply): [EMT/MO/etc]
etc, etc.....
I'm not talking about a complete template that makes a WTS ad into an incredibly long PITA form letter, but just a few simple basics that every buyer would want to know, and that every seller should rightfully be revealing about the item he has for sale. It forces the seller to comment on that aspect of the item and/or actually inspect it before putting it up for sale. Are they expected to know that a particular factory code on the rear sight isn't correct for this year of rifle production and serial number? Absolutely not. But any gun owner should be able to tell if the stock has a crack in it or if the bore is ringed.
Let's face it, the buyer is usually the one with the most to lose and the one taking the risk. I don't think it unfair or unreasonable to require some minimum information to be provided. If everything is above board this shouldn't be a problem, and really it is also in the seller's interest to make sure the buyer doesn't feel like he's been duped. This is by no means a total solution of course, because I don't think you can (reasonably) cover everything that is a make-or-break issue. I am just also tired of seeing ads that go something like: "Rifle up for sale, don't know much about it, looks fine for it's age, seems to be working. Pics up soon! $500"
Does anyone actually like "Caveat Emptor"?
Bore: [Excellent/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor]
Drilled & Tapped: [Factory/Yes/No]
Bluing/Metal Finish: [Excellent/Refinished/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor/White]
Stock/Furniture Condition: [Excellent/Refinished/Very Good/Good/Fair/Poor/None]
Stock/Furniture Damage: [Yes/No]
If Yes Specify: __________________
Price: ___________
Shipping included: [Yes/No]
Payment (select all that apply): [EMT/MO/etc]
etc, etc.....
I'm not talking about a complete template that makes a WTS ad into an incredibly long PITA form letter, but just a few simple basics that every buyer would want to know, and that every seller should rightfully be revealing about the item he has for sale. It forces the seller to comment on that aspect of the item and/or actually inspect it before putting it up for sale. Are they expected to know that a particular factory code on the rear sight isn't correct for this year of rifle production and serial number? Absolutely not. But any gun owner should be able to tell if the stock has a crack in it or if the bore is ringed.
Let's face it, the buyer is usually the one with the most to lose and the one taking the risk. I don't think it unfair or unreasonable to require some minimum information to be provided. If everything is above board this shouldn't be a problem, and really it is also in the seller's interest to make sure the buyer doesn't feel like he's been duped. This is by no means a total solution of course, because I don't think you can (reasonably) cover everything that is a make-or-break issue. I am just also tired of seeing ads that go something like: "Rifle up for sale, don't know much about it, looks fine for it's age, seems to be working. Pics up soon! $500"
Does anyone actually like "Caveat Emptor"?
Hi,
This comment really bothers me whenever I see it on the EE:
"No photo collectors"
If the seller is doesn't want to be bothered e-mailing photos to potential buyers, then why doesn't he simply include them in the ad?
When we're dealing with buying and selling valuable milsurps, quality photographs are paramount to any deal.
On a separate note I would like to see another discussion forum and EE for military pistols. There's currently no dedicated home for these significant firearms.
It may also be worthwhile to have a separate EE just for 12.6 pistols, something dedicated to the lucky folks who can own and buy them and it would cut down on EE clutter for the majority of us who can't.
Just some thoughts,
-Steve
This comment really bothers me whenever I see it on the EE:
"No photo collectors"
If the seller is doesn't want to be bothered e-mailing photos to potential buyers, then why doesn't he simply include them in the ad?
When we're dealing with buying and selling valuable milsurps, quality photographs are paramount to any deal.
On a separate note I would like to see another discussion forum and EE for military pistols. There's currently no dedicated home for these significant firearms.
It may also be worthwhile to have a separate EE just for 12.6 pistols, something dedicated to the lucky folks who can own and buy them and it would cut down on EE clutter for the majority of us who can't.
Just some thoughts,
-Steve
Not a bad idea, but you are still dealing with a subjective description of bore, metal, and wood condition. One man's "very good" often means "fair" to the next man. Personally, I'd like to see people dispense with the term, "forced matched" and the description, "minty". Minty is either a flavor or the smell of unicorn farts. A separate sale forum for SKSs and related aftermarket gee-haws and whifftickers would be nice too.
I'll take it !!! Oh sorry...got carried away there for a second.....
The thing I notice, is that the lower the price, the greater the hassles. I think that with high priced, rarified items, both the buyer and seller know what they have and what they are looking for. I have had more headaches with a $100.00 rifle than a $1,000,00 one. All sorts of demands/conditions/exceptions and you feel like saying "It's a $100.00 rifle....your girlfriend probably spent more on Walmart make-up and lottery tickets this week, so just relax..."
Which makes me a little leery of the EE lately. For example, I have a bunch of old milsurps that are not worth much that I am considering selling. I suppose if I stripped them for parts I would make more money, but I just don't have the time/inclination. I think they would be great for a young collector trying to start out. I just don't want to face the inevitable PMs.....
Would it be useful to have a trader forum for serious community members? 500 or more posts? you can pretty much guarantee that no one will be dicking around in there. [that being said there always is one a-hole floating around
I feel that sort of requirement would lead to a massive spamming of useless posts as members try to hit the 500 mark. Post count doesn't mean much to me.
-Steve
