Anyone else think economy rifles degrade brand?

[Bluebulldog]

Im pretty sure my Ruger American will outlast me... since its my dedicated deer gun. I might shoot 5-10 rounds out of it a year to zero it and 1 round for deer...

Yeah the stock is cheap... Yeah the Ruger's Marksman Adjustable trigger is 100x better then Savages accu junk. Yeah the bolt isnt orgasmic to use. Yeah its one of the cheapest gun in my safe. So what...

It works for me..

And as a great example. You don't like the trigger on your Savage ( major complaint of most), you can either adjust it yourself a-la Youtube ( I did this and it works fine), or for $100 and a few minutes of your time, you can put a new Timney Trigger in....bringing the total cost of said gun to still well below what a Rem 700 will cost.

Works for me too.

 

[shorttrac]

Because the firearms industry, like the NA auto industry was able to write it's own ticket for decades, and willfully ignored foreign production methods. The NA gun makers have been forced by the market itself to recognize that there are other makers doing it for cheaper, and with a quality that will meet NA standards. Quite frankly, like the auto industry, many of today's value guns are still miles ahead of what was offered a few decades ago.

The introduction of value priced rifles from the likes of Savage, Remington, etc shows that they learned their lessons. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

The quality of these rifles is quite good. In comparison to some of the other higher priced / quality rifles, they aren't quite as nice for "feel" this is true. But it does allow a new hunter, to get into the game, with a budget in mind. I see a few posters have commented on buying a quality "used" gun, instead. Great strategy, it's how I got into the sport years ago, but buying used also means that you could be buying someone elses problem as well ( gee, why do you think they traded in that nice little rifle in the 1st place? It's not always because they just got tired of it).

I own a very nice CIL .308 ( made by Parker Hale) bought used. love the feel of the gun, and it shoots nicely. I also recently bought a Savage Axis in .308 in stainless. I have to admit I didn't like the action on the Rem 770, but I did quite like the way the Axis felt. For the money it was a decent buy for Moose hunting in NFLD, and it shoots quite nice. It also cost less with taxes, than my CIL did, even used.

The proliferation of decently made, "value" guns is here to stay. you can buy your Benelli semi, or you can go buy a Stoeger M3500 which has the same action in it. Fit and finish isn't quite the same, but clay birds will break, ducks will fall, and turkeys will sound their last gobble just the same. Weatherby has it's scatterguns made in Turkey by Armsan, they are quite nice. I have a Mossy 20G semi built by the same place. I have a Winchester 1500 XTR which is 30 years old, and great quality, but IMO, it's no better than some of the "value" shotguns like the SA-08 out there today.

While I do agree to most points such as Benelli vs Stoeger, I liken it to the 11-87 of old to the new 11-87 made with todays american standard. years ago the 11-87 was a well respected reliable gun as the new one is waiting to self destruct. The stoeger is indeed the same design but is definately not a Benelli. Is the Benelli overpriced, yes but you know the gun is going to work. do a quick search for stoeger problems as there are a quite a few more than a black eagle. They will both kill a goose the same but one will do it for years reliably

 

[pbonura]

Saw a post earlier about a mauer 12. I posted that they closest I would get to a Mauser 12 is a zastava m70. I think for sure that deer, moose or bear would be dead with a 500 compared to 6000 gun. Dead really is dead. If the gun shoots straight this thread is 13 pages of crap.

 

[Ardent]

Ruger will always make Ardent his top end African safari guns and Cooper will always make StubbleJumper his 7mm STW custom rigs... everyone can be happy... and it should make us ALL happy to know that our sport is growing and healthy... so let's all work on the mentoring and induction of new shooters.

I agree about the sport, but unfortunately no, Ruger won't. They already killed the RSM (my .375 H&H and literally the only rifle I hunt with worldwide), they killed the Gold Label (my shotgun, travels with the RSM) both quality working grade guns Bill Ruger Sr. himself pushed into production. The No.1 won't last forever either, it will be tacticool .22LR's, Mini'14's, ARs, 1911s, and cheap hunting rifles one day mark my words.

Won't be able to buy a gorgeous African express rifle for $1,900 like I did with my RSM down the road, as I said the good stuff will get pricier and the cheap stuff cheaper.

 

[Bluebulldog]

The nicer guns don't make you a better hunter, but for those of us where hunting is a huge part f our life, we often like to do it with nice tools.

Agreed.

I used to be a tradesman, and have an obscene amount of money in tools. But when framing and drywalling my garage I used the fibreglass shaft 16 Oz hammer from the dollar store that my 4 year old gave me for Xmas, and my Estwings stayed in the drawer. The nails and my wrist didn't notice the difference.

 

[Bluebulldog]

Is the Benelli overpriced, yes but you know the gun is going to work. do a quick search for stoeger problems as there are a quite a few more than a black eagle. They will both kill a goose the same but one will do it for years reliably

Re. the 11-87, yes, some NA gunmakers are still trying to figure out the value vs. quality balance, and you've got that one right.

The Stoeger problems vs. the Benelli......gee, without seeing sales #s, I cant help but wonder if the ratio isn't a direct reflection of how many more Stoegers get sold over the Benelli?

I've been doing a bit of research, and most of the Stoeger issues I've seen were related to the inertia system not being properly broken in by burning a box or two of 3-3.5" mags first, then dropping down to 2 3/4" 1 Oz loads.

But yes, you and I agree.

 

[Ardent]

Ruger will always make Ardent his top end African safari guns and Cooper will always make StubbleJumper his 7mm STW custom rigs... everyone can be happy... and it should make us ALL happy to know that our sport is growing and healthy... so let's all work on the mentoring and induction of new shooters.

I should have replied more concisely. What worries me, and the title and topic of this thread, is the cheapening of a brand like Ruger because they are dropping their best stuff and replacing it with the budget stuff, their Safari rifles are all dead and demoted to .375 Ruger "Africans" at half the price and beauty. It's sad watching my favourite offerings from them die and the $300 plastic stuff come in is all. A publicly traded company has to chase the business sadly however.

 

[kamlooky]

Interesting comments and replies from all.
I like the old school stuff and not of the 303 variety.
Dad hated those with a passion.
I bought my daughter a new Stevens 200 in 308win.
Would I do it again?
Short answer........No.
She didn't appreciate the recoil, so I bought and put on a
Kickeeze. Still didn't like the recoil. Better, but not by much.
Then went on a Richard's Microfit laminate.
Lots of putter'in went into making that stock fit.
Mucho better.
Now that Stevens needs a trigger upgrade.
Some math will tell me that I would of been further ahead to
buy something a bit more exspensive to begin with.
Even an old Mauser 98, Ruger or A-Bolt.
At the time, new rifle, in a new box nicely wrapped for a Grad present.
She is happy with it and shot her first buck not too long after I fitted a
3200 Elite on it.
Recoil didn't seem to matter as she didn't remember it....
Different generations seem to appreciate different firearm sorts.
Seems the young bucks are after the plastic things.
I guess with growing up with Little Tykes, Toys R Us and what not, it's to be expected.....aye?

 

[Ardent]

Re. the 11-87, yes, some NA gunmakers are still trying to figure out the value vs. quality balance, and you've got that one right.

The Stoeger problems vs. the Benelli......gee, without seeing sales #s, I cant help but wonder if the ratio isn't a direct reflection of how many more Stoegers get sold over the Benelli?

I've been doing a bit of research, and most of the Stoeger issues I've seen were related to the inertia system not being properly broken in by burning a box or two of 3-3.5" mags first, then dropping down to 2 3/4" 1 Oz loads.

But yes, you and I agree.

I actually bet more Benellis are sold than Stoeger semis, even though more expensive.

 

[shorttrac]

I actually bet more Benellis are sold than Stoeger semis, even though more expensive.

Have to agree, I know of a dozen personally and maybe one stoger(if he still owns it?)

 

[DILLIGAF]

Bluebulldog my MK2 TR and 10-FCPK rock the Rifle Basix triggers...

 

[Republic of Alberta]

Ardent, they stopped making the RSM because nobody bought them. Not many people care about circassian walnut and integral quarter ribs.

 

[Brutus]

I should have replied more concisely. What worries me, and the title and topic of this thread, is the cheapening of a brand like Ruger because they are dropping their best stuff and replacing it with the budget stuff, their Safari rifles are all dead and demoted to .375 Ruger "Africans" at half the price and beauty. It's sad watching my favourite offerings from them die and the $300 plastic stuff come in is all. A publicly traded company has to chase the business sadly however.

Sometimes they just drop the good stuff altogether. Such as the ROA, that Bill Ruger himself said his company would always manufacture. They are supposed to provide warranty repair and spare parts for ten years following this end of production run. In this case they did neither also.

 

[bearkilr]

Whens the last time accuracy mattered, the last time an animal was shot at. You are a perfect example of the haters, telling us all accuracy does not matter. The attraction for an accurate rifle over a "pretty" looking gun is the confidence to make that shot count when you pull the trigger. I guess it's like vehicals, some must have the best looking vehical, trying to make up where they are lacking some where's else.....

Sonny, I'm not s Savage hater, still have a couple rimfires. They are what their price point dictates; basic finish, parts and rough edges. If you think of your gun as a tool, then it's probably all you'll ever need. I myself think of it as more than just that, that's my personal preference.

What I find humorous is guys like you that stomp their feet insisting their $350 Savage is as good or better than a $2000 Cooper because it'll match the accuracy. Call it an inferiority complex I suppose.

 

[Calum]

I really don't understand how some hunters turn into packs of highschool girl cliques when talking to other hunters about their firearms. It's very strange.

It's hunting, not a fricken fashion show.
Use what works for you, paddle your own canoe.

If anyone is feeling embarrassed for owning a Savage Axis they can send it to me (unless it is the one thrown in the vid, lol) and I'll be sure to give it a good home free of charge.

 

[canadaman30]

Sonny, I'm not s Savage hater, still have a couple rimfires. They are what their price point dictates; basic finish, parts and rough edges. If you think of your gun as a tool, then it's probably all you'll ever need. I myself think of it as more than just that, that's my personal preference.

What I find humorous is guys like you that stomp their feet insisting their $350 Savage is as good or better than a $2000 Cooper because it'll match the accuracy. Call it an inferiority complex I suppose.

So I suppose your wife's "Guess" purse she paid 1500.00 for is superior to all others. Let her know it only costed 23.00 to produce. Not all consumer products are worth the price tag. I can tell you, I myself have some pricy guns and they are no better built than rifles I've paid less than have as much. Sure the wood and metal are nicely finished but that does not make it a better build IMO.

 

[Ardent]

So I suppose your wife's "Guess" purse she paid 1500.00 for is superior to all others. Let her know it only costed 23.00 to produce. Not all consumer products are worth the price tag. I can tell you, I myself have some pricy guns and they are no better built than rifles I've paid less than have as much. Sure the wood and metal are nicely finished but that does not make it a better build IMO.

bearkilr, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, guides hunts, shoots wolves, and professionally ranches game like Bison. His wife won't have a Guess purse and neither does mine, but we have nice guns. The most vehement folks are those with cheap guns lashing out at those without it seems, odd indeed. We would consider it far more likely a guy from Southern Ontario with an Axis would be worried about purses. Sorry, had to shoot back.

 

[track]

I beleive most of the haters here are pissed because they see their expensive "pretty" guns shoot no better than a 3-400.00 dollar gun...

My pretty guns must shoot and work better than utilitarian firearms because they kill big whtetails every year......................there must be some truth to that statement.

 

[Camo tung]

So I should be super impressed by another hunter/shooter that spent as much on his rings & bases as I did for my entire scoped "plasti-crap" backup rifle?
Buy the best your budget will allow for and enjoy the shooting sports, period.

 

[NoTarget]

I really don't understand how some hunters turn into packs of highschool girl cliques when talking to other hunters about their firearms. It's very strange.

That invokes a funny mental image of a bunch of old guys standing in one corner of the hallway dressed in camo pointing at others, whispering and giggling. At least the high school girls grow up.