Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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aftermidnight said:
Forgive me here for I have missed a few days worth of postings.

If the lower is the issue, would those who have switched to a NEA lower be in the clear?
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Nope, it's the upper. And we still don't appear to know what exactly is the issue, if anything at all. And assuming that it does get prohibited that would mean regardless of what you've modifed on your firearm it would still be prohibited.
 
lawn gnome said:
I need two things cleared up.

Is the 'control gun' like a pattern gun that was initially approved, this is the design and it stands?
Or is a 'control gun' the thing against which it is compared against, the approved vs an actual 540 or 550?
Or was it just a sample grabbed from the shelf?

Only thing is, that the whole C/A issue is rather irrelevant as they are claiming that all SA are variants.
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A complaint was made that ESF9116 was a "spurious" copy. It was sent to the RCMP forensics lab for investigation. It was sent with two other guns that were described by the sender as "real" Classic Green rifles. The "real" rifles (or control rifles) were in reality C/A. So the sender saw that ESF9116 was different than two other rifles in his possession, made the assumption that ESF9116 was incorrect and sent it with two other rifles that were thought to be correct. He was wrong on all counts. We are dealing with the fallout. This made even worse by the fact that sender should have known better as he was claiming to be a Swiss Arms expert, and he had received a letter from SAN stating that ESF9116 was in fact a true Classic Green rifle.

You are right however, the damage has been done and there is little to do but wait and see if SAN can pull a rabbit out of a hat.
 
lawn gnome said:
I need two things cleared up.

Is the 'control gun' like a pattern gun that was initially approved, this is the design and it stands?
Or is a 'control gun' the thing against which it is compared against, the approved vs an actual 540 or 550?
Or was it just a sample grabbed from the shelf?

Only thing is, that the whole C/A issue is rather irrelevant as they are claiming that all SA are variants.
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From what I read of the email exchanges published (and some others not yet published).

The "Control Guns" where sent by TSE from recent stock along with the "spurious" copy as a "look these are different". The Control guns where different from the original approved models (but CSC was not)

Thus it seems the reason that TSE stopped selling theirs, is that there is the possibility that they have CA guns which where incorrectly registered as semi-auto's and are awaiting the RCMP decision.
 
KevinB said:
From what I read of the email exchanges published (and some others not yet published).

The "Control Guns" where sent by TSE from recent stock along with the "spurious" copy as a "look these are different". The Control guns where different from the original approved models (but CSC was not)

Thus it seems the reason that TSE stopped selling theirs, is that there is the possibility that they have CA guns which where incorrectly registered as semi-auto's and are awaiting the RCMP decision.
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Actually I have confirmed with SAN that the control guns were imported in 2007/2008 they were not recent at all.
 
KevinB said:
So to me:

It appears that JR got a gun saw it was different from his inventory and complained to the RCMP, it was examined and found to be semi-auto, thus it would appear that TSE has some converted auto weapons in its inventory, and right and truly screwed himself (and potentially others).

Train Wreck if my my reading of the emails is correct.
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Yup, CHOOO CHOOOO....... Thanks to he who's selfishness lead to this and will never see another $ of mine....
 
MutatedPhoton said:
Yup, CHOOO CHOOOO....... Thanks to he who's selfishness lead to this and will never see another $ of mine....
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Selfishness?

Talk about jumping to conclusions...

You would rather the store sell a converted auto as a NR rifle?

That shop and whoever owns it would be in a world of hurt if it ever came to light that they sold a prohib firearm to anyone!

There is no proof of any malicious intent, and all the BS speculation surrounding this issue is absurd!

If it was my business on the line, and I had reason to believe I could be hurt because of this gun I, and anyone else would take steps to protect themselves as well!

People need to shut the f@#k up until something conclusive, accompanied by some proof comes to light!
 
MutatedPhoton said:
-snip-Thanks to he who's selfishness lead to this and will never see another $ of mine....
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Maybe it will come to light eventually, but I can't imagine what selfish motive could exist that would prompt a Swiss Arms dealer to intentionally send in C/A's for examination by the RCMP? It seems more like a case of being over cautious combined with possibly not fully understanding what they were dealing with. Of course, I'm just a spectator here.
 
Because there's a lot of text in there, I think it's worth recreating the final paragraphs here:

Where are we going?


The June 30th deadline is important. Both CSC and TSE may submit evidence to the RCMP regarding the lineage of the SAN rifles.

It would seem that JR is preparing to visit Switzerland in order to secure the documents we need. It is not certain, but it is certainly hoped that SAN will be able to provide clear documentation proving the Classic Green and other Canadian rifles are not 550 variants. This would be a comprehensive solution to that issue.

It seems that SAN is currently conducting an internal audit to track the converted auto parts. It seems that at some point those parts got over here, and we will likely have to do something about them. Whether that means a recall, re-verification, or any other course of action remains to be seen.

So what can we as gun owners do right now?

1. Support anyone looking to firmly establish the lineage of these rifles.

2. Learn how to inspect your own rifle for C/A parts, and be prepared to turn them in.

I’m hoping that we can put together a rough guide on how to accomplish number two in the next few days here.


It is important to remind ourselves that currently nothing has changed. Results are far from certain at this stage.

While it may be frustrating that clashes between individuals have landed us in this situation, the fact is that we are here now, and we must play the hand we’re dealt.
 
Shooting Centre said:
Actually I have confirmed with SAN that the control guns were imported in 2007/2008 they were not recent at all.
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Does this mean the more recent ones are more likely to be built from new as Semi autos as opposed to being imports that were converted autos to semis?

Is it possible the RCMP would do a recall to check which are which?

Thanks for this! This actually seems like good news.
 
mlehtovaara said:
Selfishness?

Talk about jumping to conclusions...

You would rather the store sell a converted auto as a NR rifle?

That shop and whoever owns it would be in a world of hurt if it ever came to light that they sold a prohib firearm to anyone!

There is no proof of any malicious intent, and all the BS speculation surrounding this issue is absurd!

People need to shut the f@#k up until something conclusive, accompanied by some proof comes to light!
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It is now pretty apparent that anyone selling SAN rifles may have been selling C/A guns without knowing it. In this case the owner did not send C/A rifles in for testing because he thought they might be C/A, they were sent in because he thought they actually should look that way and the semi auto gun looked wrong. Again this is more troubling because as the original importer and alleged expert he should have known better.

You are correct there is no proof of malicious intent and if anything only ignorance and impulsiveness.
What do you need to be conclusively proven though. The malicious intent or the status of the SAN rifles?
 
Stormchaser said:
Does this mean the more recent ones are more likely to be built from new as Semi autos as opposed to being imports that were converted autos to semis?

Is it possible the RCMP would do a recall to check which are which?

Thanks for this! This actually seems like good news.
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SAN knows they truly screwed up on this, they really have no good excuse as to how the C/A receivers ended up in the mix. It appears to have happened a couple times too. I spoke to the CEO yesterday and he is currently trying to track down suspect serial numbers but their detailed records only go back 10 years.
If you own a SAN gun open the receivers, pull out the bolts and look down into the action. The right hand rail should be solid along its length with no slot cut through when viewed from the top.
 
Shooting Centre said:
SAN knows they truly screwed up on this, they really have no good excuse as to how the C/A receivers ended up in the mix. It appears to have happened a couple times too. I spoke to the CEO yesterday and he is currently trying to track down suspect serial numbers but their detailed records only go back 10 years.
If you own a SAN gun open the receivers, pull out the bolts and look down into the action. The right hand rail should be solid along its length with no slot cut through when viewed from the top.
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Well sign me up for one of those in Black!
 
So... EVERYONE who owns a Swiss Arms will need to verify if they have a C/A or a true S/A Swiss Arms rifle.

Those with a C/A upper will have to turn them back into some sort of authority - either the importer or the RCMP for disposal.

HOPEFULLY SAN and the distributor will step up to the plate and reimburse or replace the C/A rifle with a properly verified S/A rifle.
 
philchau said:
So... EVERYONE who owns a Swiss Arms will need to verify if they have a C/A or a true S/A Swiss Arms rifle.

Those with a C/A upper will have to turn them back into some sort of authority - either the importer or the RCMP for disposal.

HOPEFULLY SAN and the distributor will step up to the plate and reimburse or replace the C/A rifle with a properly verified S/A rifle.
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IF the RCMP doesn't decide they are a variant of the 55X instead of the 540......
 
The worst part of all of this is that this justifies the RCMP's rigorous testing, and classification process, and assures that all future scary guns will be held up in testing for years before we ever see em.

At the same time it appears that C/A rifles in the hands of the public, just like with the thousands of F/A guns already out there, do not translate into a public safety concern!

Nobody is converting these back to F/A, and I haven't heard of too many F/A's being used that can trace back to legit owners.

All of this BS and for what? What a friggin waste of everyones time and tax dollars!
 
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