The recoil on my sporterized 1903 Springfield (bought it already sporterized; couldn't afford one that wasn't!) really taught me to appreciate my full-wood 1917 in .30-06
Recoil
- Thread starter AlexanderKieth
- Start date
The recoil on my sporterized 1903 Springfield (bought it already sporterized; couldn't afford one that wasn't!) really taught me to appreciate my full-wood 1917 in .30-06
I have a scar on my Nose from the scope on my Mauser. Got it trying to impress a girl, who then proceeded to outshoot me with it! I've found the m44 kickier than my vz24. Haven't tried an M95 yet.
Going the other direction, my Ljungman has almost no felt recoil at all.
Going the other direction, my Ljungman has almost no felt recoil at all.
The Lee Enfield No5 and the Mosin Nagant M44 produce the most recoil of all the milsurps I've had experience with. That is not to say they are not fun to shoot or will hurt you. I can put multiple boxes through either in a session and have little to no discomfort afterwards just make sure you wear your ears
This matches my experience; the M44 is definitely thumpy, but the No.5 is a right bastard. Those two really stand out from the rest of the milsurps I've shot, with the No.5 being the only one that kicked hard enough to be unenjoyable.
Thumpy, but not unpleasant. You can tell it's a powerful round, but I've yet to shoot enough of it in a sitting to get anywhere close to being uncomfortable.
The majority of rifle ammunition military and civilian is optimized for longer barrels, when you start shortening barrel length the chamber pressure at the point the bullet leaves the barrel increases. On top of this the percent of powder burned "inside" the bore decreases creating more muzzle blast. The end result is short barreled rifles have "more" rocket thrust and blast, if you reload this can be tamed with faster burning powders that burn more completely.
I have the computer software Quickload and it gives you the percent of powder burned and the chamber pressure along the entire length of the barrel. Any rifle can be tamed with lighter bullets and faster burning powder and reducing the "rocket thrust" as the bullet leaves the barrel.
Below is a Quickload example of the 30-06, by reducing the peak chamber pressure 10,000 psi with a lighter load the pressure at the muzzle is greatly reduced to 500 psi and the percent of powder burned is 98.11%, meaning less "rocket thrust" recoil going to your shoulder.
Below a pressure trace of the .223 and 6.8 Remington SPC, the larger diameter 6.8 Rem SPC has less muzzle blast than the .223 with a faster burning powder.
As another example I was at the range testing loads in my No.4 Enfield, I was using the same bullet and different powders. I had just finished shooting 50 rounds with a fast burning powder IMR 3031 and then started shooting the next load using IMR 4350 a much slower burning powder.
When I pulled the trigger on the first IMR 4350 load the felt recoil was twice as much as the faster burning IMR 3031 powder I had just finished shooting. The burning rate of the powder affects the amount of rearward force or kick the rifle will have. What amazed me was I had just pulled the trigger on the suggested starting load of IMR 4350 and the lightest load in that box kicked harder than the max load of IMR 3031 in the last load I had shot.
I have the computer software Quickload and it gives you the percent of powder burned and the chamber pressure along the entire length of the barrel. Any rifle can be tamed with lighter bullets and faster burning powder and reducing the "rocket thrust" as the bullet leaves the barrel.
Below is a Quickload example of the 30-06, by reducing the peak chamber pressure 10,000 psi with a lighter load the pressure at the muzzle is greatly reduced to 500 psi and the percent of powder burned is 98.11%, meaning less "rocket thrust" recoil going to your shoulder.
Below a pressure trace of the .223 and 6.8 Remington SPC, the larger diameter 6.8 Rem SPC has less muzzle blast than the .223 with a faster burning powder.
As another example I was at the range testing loads in my No.4 Enfield, I was using the same bullet and different powders. I had just finished shooting 50 rounds with a fast burning powder IMR 3031 and then started shooting the next load using IMR 4350 a much slower burning powder.
When I pulled the trigger on the first IMR 4350 load the felt recoil was twice as much as the faster burning IMR 3031 powder I had just finished shooting. The burning rate of the powder affects the amount of rearward force or kick the rifle will have. What amazed me was I had just pulled the trigger on the suggested starting load of IMR 4350 and the lightest load in that box kicked harder than the max load of IMR 3031 in the last load I had shot.
Last edited:
- Location
- chilliwack BC.
proper full load(not Winchester or other US ammo)8mm mauser in a short mauser rifle is a hefty kick. I would suggest that maybe in the shorter actioned rifles like the Yugoslav ones its even more pronounced due to the lesser weight?
but like has been said, the specific ammo has lots to do with it. Full military loads vs crappy US ammo is a world of difference.
but like has been said, the specific ammo has lots to do with it. Full military loads vs crappy US ammo is a world of difference.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I was waiting and surprized it took this long for someone to mention the Mauser. 8mm is nothing to sneeze at. I remember someone actually pulled up a chart in regards to recoil compared by cartridge, the British .303 equaled 40lbs if memory serves. Having said that, if you're not holding the rifle (any rifle) properly you will "feel/perceive" more recoil. Ever have the top of the butt stock slip up and "ring" your collar bone!?
13lb of recoil at 10fps for the .303 mk7z cartridge in a no 4 mk1
The "crappy" American SAAMI ammunition has to be loaded to lower pressure levels because of all the older firearms still being shot and used in North America. European proofing standards are higher and mandatory and American standards are much more lax, as an example you can buy AR15 uppers that have not been proof tested and assemble the rifle yourself.
Ammunition Example: The Enfield rifle shot ammunition using the older British system of chamber chamber pressure, starting at 16.5, 17.5, 18.5 and finally 19.5 tsi for the last Mk.7 loaded. The 18.5 tsi is equal to 46,000 cup or 49,000 psi and commercial ammunition is loaded to less than 43,000 cup due to the older Enfield rifles still being used. The final military .303 ammunition was loaded at 19.5 tsi which was very close to 7.62 NATO pressures and would damage older No.1 Enfield rifles.
The "crappy" ammunition is loaded this way to keep you from blowing your head off on surplus rifles that are not required to be proof tested before being sold in North America.
- Location
- chilliwack BC.
I understand the reasoning bigedp51. Its also due to some people using the 7.92x57 in the older 1897 pattern rifles which are smaller bored. But either way its weaker ammo
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
lol they are not as bad as they say but then again im 6' 5" and 250lb I could shoot one all day given the chance
??? I don't know about that??? 10fps {10 feet per second?}
RedRabbits
Regular
- Location
- Holberg/Nanaimo BC
Smokin' fast...
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
yep its not a hard kick its also not that fast and trust me there's faster the .577-450 with the military load gets 21lb of recoil at about 13fps idk if that is accurate but ive been using that calculator for a bit now
Felt recoil is subjective. Personally, I find the felt recoil of any Lee-Enfield objectionable. It's because the butt stocks are narrow. The stock of a No. 5 has that daft India rubber pretend recoil pad on it too. Aims the recoil into your shoulder.
The worst felt recoil I've ever dealt with was out of a .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield Carbine. No internet in those days to learn from. Everybody knows the .45-70 is a .45 calibre bullet with 70 grains of BP. Loaded up some ammo, by weight not volume, and went shooting. Nice cloud of white smoke and a somewhat sore shoulder. No lube on the 405 grain cast bullet either. No accuracy. Nice key hole though.
The worst felt recoil I've ever dealt with was out of a .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield Carbine. No internet in those days to learn from. Everybody knows the .45-70 is a .45 calibre bullet with 70 grains of BP. Loaded up some ammo, by weight not volume, and went shooting. Nice cloud of white smoke and a somewhat sore shoulder. No lube on the 405 grain cast bullet either. No accuracy. Nice key hole though.
Brother, at 10fps it would take a projectile from the .303 a full 30 seconds to reach a 100 yard target. I'm confident human beings can run faster than that.
100 yards x 3= 300 (how many feet per yard), 300' divided by 10fps= 30 (time required to travel 100yrds/300ft)
I'm just as confident that the recoil is much closer to 40lbs than 14.
Just my nickels worth.
Here's one with recoil of 277 ftlb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0CBaW9FEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP0CBaW9FEI
He was referring to RECOIL VELOCITY, not bullet velocity. 40 ft. lbs of recoil would put you in the 9.3x62/.338 WM category.
