Hunting Ethics question.

I have a gorgeous red fox that has been living around the neighborhood for several years now. I haven't seen a need to dispatch him as he seems perfectly healthy and although a little brazen from time to time has never shown any aggression. He will sometimes lay in the shade, on the little hill right beside my shop office door and watch the people come and go. If the fox appears to be healthy and isn't displaying any agression he's just being his normal inquisitive self and I don't know why you would feel a need to shoot it. If it's 30 degrees he's likely looking for shade and/or water close up to the buildings. May I suggest you attend next time she calls but go and watch the fox for a while and watch his body language and demeanor before you pull the trigger. He may be perfectly normal just becoming used to the neighborhood, in which case he does not need to shot. Healthy fox are not a danger to anyone and as long as people don't hand feed them they will mind their manners and stay out from under foot. Fox have a much smaller personal space than a lot of animals and don't seem to mind close proximity to people, this doesn't make them a threat. If on the other hand after observation you do not feel he's acting appropriately and may be unhealthy or even possibly injured.........SSS
 
Observe the animal's behaviour. It may be a case of habituation in terms of proximity to humans. I had a fox this winter who watched the house from the hill immediately behind us. The barking dogs in the yard didn't dissuade him from staying put. A short time after I let the dogs in, he came down the hill and dug up a hare he had cached, and he fed on it. My point is, wildlife does not need to be shot simply because of it's proximity to us.

Too many people are willing to shoot something simply because they see it, and therefore believe it to be a threat...and that mentality has been displayed many a time on this forum with regard to things as innocuous as garter snakes. Unless the fox behaves aggressively ( lack of fear is NOT aggression) or is otherwise displaying signs of obvious dangerous pathology, there is no need to shoot it. Curiosity is an inborn quality of a successful species like the red fox.
 
Chuckbuster said:
Observe the animal's behaviour. It may be a case of habituation in terms of proximity to humans. I had a fox this winter who watched the house from the hill immediately behind us. The barking dogs in the yard didn't dissuade him from staying put. A short time after I let the dogs in, he came down the hill and dug up a hare he had cached, and he fed on it. My point is, wildlife does not need to be shot simply because of it's proximity to us.

Too many people are willing to shoot something simply because they see it, and therefore believe it to be a threat...and that mentality has been displayed many a time on this forum with regard to things as innocuous as garter snakes. Unless the fox behaves aggressively ( lack of fear is NOT aggression) or is otherwise displaying signs of obvious dangerous pathology, there is no need to shoot it. Curiosity is an inborn quality of a successful species like the red fox.
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X2. I don't shoot foxes. They are good to have around to reduce the rodent population and unless sick do not present a threat to people.
 
If it's not acting strange or aggressively, then i'd get some firecrackers or a slingshot. Toss the crackers at it, and follow it up with pebble in the butt.
If it's foaming at the mouth, nipping at the kids, or stealing chickens, give it lead poisoning with a 17 HMR or 22. I like foxes, but I love my kids.
 
Gargoyle said:
Ok so I'm the kindof hunter that refuses to kill something unless it is either table fare or used for it's pelt. Always stuck to that and never had a reason to do anything else. But today I get a call from a close friend (single mother with small children living in the country) who has been having a "problem" with a Red Fox coming increasingly close to her house and kids. She called me a few weeks ago and it was only coming, about 150 yards away. Well today she opens her porch door and it's 15 yards away, right around the kids play equipment. All other times it has come around at dusk, so I really didn't think anything of it.. Staying a good distance, coming out at normal times, what was there to think about. Well today she calls me at 12:00 noon and the Fox is 15 yards away from her back door with a 100lb dog in a kennel 20 yards away from it loosing it barking non stop and it didn't even flinch. Oh and it's over 30 degrees here, 36 with the humidex. Any clue what could be wrong with it? Regardless I think this is going to be the time I go away from my normal "food only" hunting and drop a fox regardless. What are your thoughts?
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Tell her top throw some rocks at it, and go back to your TV show or whatever it is you were doing when she interrupted you.

It's a FOX! Not the fricken big bad wolf.

Between the mice and grasshoppers it will eat, and the cats, they do a bunch of good in the burbs!

Not been much in the news, foxes carrying kids away, these days.

Jesus. Humanity is fooked!

I'm starting to think that being Animal Control Officer would be a fun way to abuse a lot of folks for being dumb. Right up there with being the phone tech for a computer store.


Cheers
Trev
 
Back in the days when I was in high school, dad bought a pup, English Pointer in the gal formation.
Well the gal had pups and behind the house, in the bank going up hill was a fox den.
The pointer had her pups in there and remarkable as it was, the pooch, pups and the fox
some how managed to get along together.
The fox caused absolutely no grief to any of the hounds.
I have never had a bad taste in my mouth for foxes.
Aye Sly?
 
Not gonna lie I shoot every fox and coyote I see. In southern Ontario we have no limit and open 365 days a year. Extremely over populated even though I live in horse country where there are soooo many of these "hunt clubs" go around on horses and watch hounds shred them to pieces. I've stuffed a few.

You said you kill for meat and pelt. So why can't you kill a fox??? Pelt!!!
 
12.6envy said:
Speaking of ethics maybe the dog should't be left out in a kennel when it's 36 degrees. I hate seeing that.
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Agreed. Perhaps if that big ol dog wasn't locked up and was on the lookout for things such as foxes and coyotes she would not have this problem.
If it were me, the dog and kids would play together...ALWAYS. If the fox showed signs of rabies I would have no problem putting him down with my 17hrm.
If not, let it be and ask her to be more responsible with her dogs and kids. Just my .02c
 
SneakyD said:
First I would watch this video
then I'd shoot it
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That's like leaving a henhouse full of clucking chickens unguarded and then being surprised that it got raided by the fox. The "baby" wailing like that resembles the sound of prey animals in distress; is it any wonder the fox showed an interest in it. It's a set up designed to guarantee that the fox would act like a fox.
 
Chuckbuster said:
That's like leaving a henhouse full of clucking chickens unguarded and then being surprised that it got raided by the fox. The "baby" wailing like that resembles the sound of prey animals in distress; is it any wonder the fox showed an interest in it. It's a set up designed to guarantee that the fox would act like a fox.
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That is exactly the point, foxes are predators, if a child triggers the fox's prey drive then it will attack the child.

The video I posted, was done because a fox had attacked a real baby in England. Various animal rights groups claimed that it was a freak occurrence and could therefore be completely disregarded. The video shows that foxes are predators that do not respect the rights of children not to be eaten.

I do not believe that healthy foxes are in any way dangerous to adults but small children are a different story.
 
SneakyD said:
That is exactly the point, foxes are predators, if a child triggers the fox's prey drive then it will attack the child.

The video I posted, was done because a fox had attacked a real baby in England. Various animal rights groups claimed that it was a freak occurrence and could therefore be completely disregarded. The video shows that foxes are predators that do not respect the rights of children not to be eaten.

I do not believe that healthy foxes are in any way dangerous to adults but small children are a different story.
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And again, I'm not surprised. The fox in the video was set up to act like, well, a fox. A fox attacked an infant? Dogs, cats, ferrets and just about any other wild and or domestic animal has done so at one time or another; no news here, other than bad parenting.

Also, you'll notice the fox in the video did a fair bit of investigating to try and figure out what was making the noise. It didn't just rush in, snatch and make off with the "baby" as if it had accomplished some coup against humanity. Again, the point is that if you set up a predator to behave like a predator, you can't claim to have given everybody an "ah-ha!" moment when it does so.
 
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Chuckbuster said:
Again, the point is that if you set up a predator to behave like a predator, you can't claim to have given everybody an "ah-ha!" moment when it does so.
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See that's the thing, the video wasn't done for people like you, that recognize foxes as predators. It was done for people who were claiming that foxes were cute, fluffy and totally harmless to children.

It is my opinion that predators and small children are not a good mix. I completely respect you right to disagree.

The OP described a situation whereby the 'fox coming increasingly close to her house and kids'. I personally would rather err on the side of caution.
 
We had a fox that hung around for awhile and wasn't all that timid. I thought about shooting it and even had the shotgun out, but when I approached it closely, it turned and trotted off, keeping an eye on me as it went. I assumed that if it was sick it would have acted differently. I later discovered it was a female with a den nearby and was hunting around the barn for mice.

Not one of my small children was mauled or carried off.

If your friend is leaving a newborn outside by itself, then you might have an issue ( along with some larger issues) but I can't picture a fox attacking a child that is old enough to be outside on their own.
 
Chuckbuster said:
That's like leaving a henhouse full of clucking chickens unguarded and then being surprised that it got raided by the fox. The "baby" wailing like that resembles the sound of prey animals in distress; is it any wonder the fox showed an interest in it. It's a set up designed to guarantee that the fox would act like a fox.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like a skinned rabbit?? in the video as well. Now throw a soiled diaper with baby powder and human scent on a doll, and see if it approaches like that.
 
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