I think your skateing on thin ice with this thinking and anyone wanting to try it would find out pretty fast it was a bad idea LOL
as you say you wouldnt want to challenge the issiue i dont think anyone else should either.
Thinking about a antique pistol advice please
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I think your skateing on thin ice with this thinking and anyone wanting to try it would find out pretty fast it was a bad idea LOL
as you say you wouldnt want to challenge the issiue i dont think anyone else should either.
Uh. Incorrect.
The Prescribed Antiques are only considered to be "Not a firearm" for the purposes of several OTHER sections of the Criminal Code, as defined in the section that defines a Prescribed Antique. All the rest of the sections, that refer to firearms, weapons, etc., still apply.
Consider what waving it around at the 7-11 parking lot will get you. You do not have any more legal reasons to have it with you at all times, than you do to have a shotgun with you at all times. If you are caught with it, expect to have to explain your reasons why, to a Judge. But you didn't discharge it!
So it's not really just like not weeding your yard.
There are a great number of offenses that you can and will be charged with, without discharging that Antique. Discretion is the better part of valor, eh.
Once you are where you would otherwise be OK to carry any other non-restricted firearm, you are OK to carry (though not concealed carry) your Antique.
Unless there is a Provincial law that says otherwise. (thinking along the lines of Ontario or New Brunswick, where they specify calibers that you can and cannot be in possession of at certain times, else you are "poaching" etc.)
Cheers
Trev
X2 Dingus X2 trevj
“antiques are NOT firearms under criminal law and can NEVER become one. If you use an antique to commit an offense such as an assault the antique will be considerd a weapon same as a baseball bat would be if it was used as a weapon in the commission of an offense but an antique can never be classified as a firearm”
This is the last paragraph of the actual legislation:
“Antique firearms are deemed by subsection 84(3) of the Criminal
Code not to be firearms for the purposes of the Firearms Act.
They are thus exempt from licensing, registration, border requirements
and other regulatory controls, although they are still
firearms if they are used in the commission of an offence.”
The legislation states ‘they are still firearms if they are used in the commission of an offence”. So the legislation passed by parliament says that they can be become a firearm again, not just a weapon. So I would assume that the automatic penalties for firearm crimes would be applied to antique firearms, when used in commission of an offence.
“antiques are NOT firearms under criminal law and can NEVER become one. If you use an antique to commit an offense such as an assault the antique will be considerd a weapon same as a baseball bat would be if it was used as a weapon in the commission of an offense but an antique can never be classified as a firearm”
This is the last paragraph of the actual legislation:
“Antique firearms are deemed by subsection 84(3) of the Criminal
Code not to be firearms for the purposes of the Firearms Act.
They are thus exempt from licensing, registration, border requirements
and other regulatory controls, although they are still
firearms if they are used in the commission of an offence.”
The legislation states ‘they are still firearms if they are used in the commission of an offence”. So the legislation passed by parliament says that they can be become a firearm again, not just a weapon. So I would assume that the automatic penalties for firearm crimes would be applied to antique firearms, when used in commission of an offence.
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Yes you are correct that in the commission of certain offenses such as section 90 carry concealed and several other offenses it would revert back to firearm status. However if you a carrying your prescribed antique in a holster not concealled and not committing an offense then it remains classified antique. If you are a 7-11 creating a disturbance and brandishing the antique it would be classified as a firearm and you would be charged accordingly. Walking downtown as Dingus has suggested with a shot gun would be different to walking downtown with an antique, by the letter of the law. The shot gun is a firearm by definition and an 1849 Colt Pocket Pistol is not and ONLY becomes a firearm if you commit an offense. And under the recent legislation you are allowed to carry and antique loaded as well. Untill and offense is committed an antique fire arm is NOT afirearm or a weapon and as such is not governed by any criminal statue or fire arms act legislation other than the transportation and storage regulations. CCs. 93 Possesion of any "antique firearm" at any location is legal. 5 CCs.95: Being in possession of a loaded "antique firearm" ( which is also a "restricted firearm" or a "prohibited firearm"), or one with readily accessible ammunition is legal even if the person is not the holder of any license, registration certificate, AT&T, or ATC.
12. CC s. 117.03 A peace officer who finds a person in possession of any "antique firearm" is not authorized to demand that the person present a license, registration certificate, AT&T,and / or ATC.
The only time it becomes an issue is when committing and offense, storage and transportation, points a firearm at another person, possession for the purpose dangerous to the publice peace, Possesion at a public meeting or carrying concealed. Other wise it is legal to have an antique loaded on your possession. Again I would not advise anyone try to carry a Webley loaded in a holster downtown BUT to the letter of the law it would be legal to do if you are not committing an offense. See link below.
WWW.nfa.ca/resource-items/antique-and-black powder-firearms
12. CC s. 117.03 A peace officer who finds a person in possession of any "antique firearm" is not authorized to demand that the person present a license, registration certificate, AT&T,and / or ATC.
The only time it becomes an issue is when committing and offense, storage and transportation, points a firearm at another person, possession for the purpose dangerous to the publice peace, Possesion at a public meeting or carrying concealed. Other wise it is legal to have an antique loaded on your possession. Again I would not advise anyone try to carry a Webley loaded in a holster downtown BUT to the letter of the law it would be legal to do if you are not committing an offense. See link below.
WWW.nfa.ca/resource-items/antique-and-black powder-firearms
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You may not be legally carrying a firearm but you are still carrying a weapon.
Under the Criminal Code of Canada the definition of a ‘weapon’:
““Weapon” means anything used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm.”
Now you may say but an antique is not a ‘firearm’, in the broad sense yes, but just because it is not defined as a ‘firearm’ it can still be deemed to be a ‘weapon’. And carrying a ‘weapon’ in public can be a recipe for disaster.
The legal guidelines set out to determine if an object is a ‘weapon’ are three:
1. Did the accused in fact use the object to cause death or injury, or to threaten or intimidate any person?
2. Did the accused intend to use the object to cause death or injury or to threaten or intimidate any person?
3. Was the object being carried by the accused designed to be used in causing death or injury to any person, or for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person?
A further legal addendum (regarding point 3) stated:
“Is the object’s design such that it could be readily usable to cause death or injury to any person or to threaten or intimidate any person”
And
“In all of the circumstances, would the carrying of the object cause the reasonable person to fear for his own safety or for the public safety, if aware of the presence of the object”
It would be very hard to argue that an antique firearm was not designed to be used to cause death or injury or to threaten or intimidate a person.
If you were opening carrying an antique and a loaded one at that, in a populated urban setting the police would conclude that you are carrying a ‘weapon’ (a loaded one) and are thus a threat to public safety and act accordingly. I don’t think you would find many judges who would let you off with a slap on the wrist. Throw in any extenuating circumstances, the Crown can come up with and you will probably spend the next 5 years and a second mortgage on your house trying to convince the legal system that you weren’t doing anything wrong. Not to mention the couple of days you might spend as a guest of the state, trying not to pick up the soap in the showers.
Under the Criminal Code of Canada the definition of a ‘weapon’:
““Weapon” means anything used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm.”
Now you may say but an antique is not a ‘firearm’, in the broad sense yes, but just because it is not defined as a ‘firearm’ it can still be deemed to be a ‘weapon’. And carrying a ‘weapon’ in public can be a recipe for disaster.
The legal guidelines set out to determine if an object is a ‘weapon’ are three:
1. Did the accused in fact use the object to cause death or injury, or to threaten or intimidate any person?
2. Did the accused intend to use the object to cause death or injury or to threaten or intimidate any person?
3. Was the object being carried by the accused designed to be used in causing death or injury to any person, or for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person?
A further legal addendum (regarding point 3) stated:
“Is the object’s design such that it could be readily usable to cause death or injury to any person or to threaten or intimidate any person”
And
“In all of the circumstances, would the carrying of the object cause the reasonable person to fear for his own safety or for the public safety, if aware of the presence of the object”
It would be very hard to argue that an antique firearm was not designed to be used to cause death or injury or to threaten or intimidate a person.
If you were opening carrying an antique and a loaded one at that, in a populated urban setting the police would conclude that you are carrying a ‘weapon’ (a loaded one) and are thus a threat to public safety and act accordingly. I don’t think you would find many judges who would let you off with a slap on the wrist. Throw in any extenuating circumstances, the Crown can come up with and you will probably spend the next 5 years and a second mortgage on your house trying to convince the legal system that you weren’t doing anything wrong. Not to mention the couple of days you might spend as a guest of the state, trying not to pick up the soap in the showers.
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So... yer telling us that you would carry an Antique handgun in places that you would not carry a shotgun openly?
The only thing different about it would be the wad of essentially useless paper that you are relying upon to protect you from harm.
Tell us whether Danners are saltier tasting than whatever the second boot is that gets stuck on your face when you get taken down by SWAT, eh.
A weapon detrimental to the public good, or causing a disturbance, is an offense. And, Bingo! It's a firearm again. One guy freaks and calls the cops, and you are on the wrong end of people who won't much care that you have a letter that says that it's all right, nor will they much give a damn about YOUR well being in the process.
Discretion, eh?
Having it, essentially, is an offense, unless you are in a place that you do not need to worry about being seen with any other gun.
Cheers
Trev
The only thing different about it would be the wad of essentially useless paper that you are relying upon to protect you from harm.
Tell us whether Danners are saltier tasting than whatever the second boot is that gets stuck on your face when you get taken down by SWAT, eh.
A weapon detrimental to the public good, or causing a disturbance, is an offense. And, Bingo! It's a firearm again. One guy freaks and calls the cops, and you are on the wrong end of people who won't much care that you have a letter that says that it's all right, nor will they much give a damn about YOUR well being in the process.
Discretion, eh?
Having it, essentially, is an offense, unless you are in a place that you do not need to worry about being seen with any other gun.
Cheers
Trev
You can get into enough ka-ka in this country just attempting to OBEY the laws. Trying to get around them with fast footwork and a glib tongue makes about as much sense as jumping into a shark pool with 20 pounds of raw liver in a package so you can "feed Mother Nature's darling fishies".
Our legal system is precisely that: a LEGAL system.
It is manifestly NOT a JUSTICE system. If it were, C-68 never would have become law.
And it has NO sense of ha-ha.
Stay safe.... or be VERY sorry.
'Nuff said.
Our legal system is precisely that: a LEGAL system.
It is manifestly NOT a JUSTICE system. If it were, C-68 never would have become law.
And it has NO sense of ha-ha.
Stay safe.... or be VERY sorry.
'Nuff said.
- Location
- Not really sure.
Damn this thread took a turn for the retarded.
Don't go popping your antique revolvers off anywhere you can't shoot a non restricted firearm, otherwise your going to have a bad time. Even then, use some common sense and don't poke bee hives.
Don't go popping your antique revolvers off anywhere you can't shoot a non restricted firearm, otherwise your going to have a bad time. Even then, use some common sense and don't poke bee hives.
You all missed the point that even though it is legal I said I would not recomend it and more than you are aware I am very familiar with the laws regarding this issue. First off as an example a knife is a weapon as described by the CC, I wear one all the time as a tool and untill I commit an offese with that knife it remains a tool no matter what the CC S definition of a weapon is. That definition is there to describe what is considered a weapon IF used in the commision of an offence. If I am walking from my home through town out to the country where I will be legaly discharging my antique I can LEGALY transport my shot gun and or my antique by letter of the law. Yes I agree it would not be wise because there are many people who do not know the law such as most police officers and like I said before I may not try it but it LEGALY can be done. The CC only comes into play if an OFFENSE is commited and or thought to be committed. The "wad of usless paper" you are referring to IS the Criminal Code, the very code you are saying that will come into play. Smellie as for your comment "nuf said" who do you think you are, you dont like the conversation or are ill informed so be it but you are not the dictator here. Tyockell18 if you are referring to my post, opinion and the exerpts from the crimminal code as being " retarded" I would like to point out that thus far the only "retarded" commet to my post has been yours. You and a few others may disagree and that is what these conversations are for to bring out different opinions on different issues but personal attacks are not called for and just indicate the level of your own mentality. The whole antique issue is complicated and frought with pit falls but at the end of the day if you are NOT commiting an offense the antique remains an antique just like a knife remains a knife until you commit an offense at which time it becomes a weapon. If you are out " popping of your antique" in an area that is deemed to be a threat to the public then you are in trouble but by the letter of the law I can walk down town with my shot gun in a case, with a triger lock through town on my way to an area where it is legal to discharge it no problem because I have a reason to do so. I can take my antique carry it with me walk right through the center of town and if I am stopped by the law and have a lawfull reason to do what I am doing such as heading out to the wilderness I can legaly do so. It is no different than carrying a knife which is a weapon if it is used in the commision of an offense until then it is a tool and as such it can be carried legally. If a cop stops you and asks you why you have a screw driver in your pocket and you tell him it is there fore self deffence then you will be charged with carrying a concealed weapon if you tll him it is because you need it as a tool no foul. Now when you guys respond do so with fact not dramatic instances of kissing some prick cops boot. Owning an antique and it's use is no more complicated than owning and carrying a knife, when it is determined that you are doing so for an illegal purpose you will be in conflict with the CC, if you have a legitimate reason to carry either no foul. I can put my antique in an approved locked container and carry that antique anywhere, anytime, for any legitimate reason. Remember I am talking about the letter of the law not what will happen if you do. One suggestion I would like to make and that is if you own an antique and intend on using it then you should sit for an hour with a lawyer so that you are fully aware of what is legal, what your responsibilities are and what to tell someone when they stop you with your antique. You have rights and being scared of the boogie man or listening to opinions based on conjecture is not responsible. Answer me this, if you have an antique legally in your possession and you carry it through town and do not commit an offense what will you be charged with and or what offense are you committing by having the antique on your person. If I can give a peace officer a plausible reason for having the antique on my possession such as the example of the knife being a tool what will he charge me with. If the cop stops me and says hey why do you have that antique on your possession and I say I am on my way camping and I am taking it with me for predator protection what will he charge me with?
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Boy are you right! It is too bad because the OP from his posts is quite willing to take proper advice in all aspects of the ownership and use of an antique firearm and then you have the wannabe wild bill hickups trying to push their (like your word) "retarded" antique agenda. The thing's, the Ha Ha's and Infidel's of the world are just like drunk drivers, of course you can drive drunk if you don't get caught.
BSA Jack interesting post but I must asked your opinion is based on what, are you a lawyer, do you have personal experience, are you law enforcement? What is it that you know that I should know based on what? You have joined the conversation but have not really added anything to it other than to support another uninformative comment! So tell me what makes you think you have the correct answer....?
What makes YOU think that the advice the OP is getting from you is the correct advice. From what I have read of your post it is hard to come to the conclusion that you really know anything but fill me in.
What makes YOU think that the advice the OP is getting from you is the correct advice. From what I have read of your post it is hard to come to the conclusion that you really know anything but fill me in.
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You have a very good chance of convincing the Crown or a judge that the baseball bat, 3 Iron or the foot long gardening shears you were walking down main street with were not designed to be ‘weapons’ and that you had a reasonable and lawful reason for having it on your person. On the other hand convincing them that the fully functional Colt SAA tucked on your hip, loaded with hollow point 44spl rounds, in an urban setting is both reasonable, conducive to public safety and was not originally designed to cause injury/death or to intimidate a person-is going to be a stretch.
As for the knife analogy, a knife with a blade under 5” can be seen as a functional tool that you carry for reasonable purposes. Aimlessly roaming around main street with a two foot machete, a samauri sword, or even a foot long Cold Steel Bowie Combat can and usually will be seen as carrying a weapon in a public place for less than lawful purposes (intimidation/threatening or possible use in a criminal act) and a possible threat to public safety-which could and has led to criminal charges and convictions. Even the screw driver example is not as clear cut. A screwdriver in your pocket may not “cause a reasonable person to fear for his own safety or for the public safety, if aware of the presence of the object” but if the police officer concludes that screwdriver may have been sharpened for other purposes-it becomes a ‘weapon’ (Goetz) and if the courts backs him up you will be convicted of a criminal offence. Also a police officer can seize and charge the individual with burglary tools based on the time, location and the owner’s behaviour. An object does not have to actually be used for it to constitute a ‘weapon’, the circumstances surrounding the object and its ability to be one is what matters.
There seems to be a little back pedalling here, in the first posts-it was that you could take your antique, slap it on your hip and walk (implied without purpose) around downtown. In addition you said that the antique could even be loaded. Now you have said you are taking the antique (in a storage box) for a legitimate reason such as you are enroute to a legal destination, with no mention that the antique is loaded. If you are strolling about with a loaded weapon on your hip and you say that you are just going for a walk because you ‘legally can’ you will be going to jail. Again it would be hard to convince a judge that going to the park to play frisbee with your buddies and a loaded antique was a reasonable and lawful activity. At the end of the day the court will decide the threat to public safety presented by you carrying a loaded ‘weapon’ in a populated urban setting. The legal force of ‘public safety’ in British common law is paramount.
As for the knife analogy, a knife with a blade under 5” can be seen as a functional tool that you carry for reasonable purposes. Aimlessly roaming around main street with a two foot machete, a samauri sword, or even a foot long Cold Steel Bowie Combat can and usually will be seen as carrying a weapon in a public place for less than lawful purposes (intimidation/threatening or possible use in a criminal act) and a possible threat to public safety-which could and has led to criminal charges and convictions. Even the screw driver example is not as clear cut. A screwdriver in your pocket may not “cause a reasonable person to fear for his own safety or for the public safety, if aware of the presence of the object” but if the police officer concludes that screwdriver may have been sharpened for other purposes-it becomes a ‘weapon’ (Goetz) and if the courts backs him up you will be convicted of a criminal offence. Also a police officer can seize and charge the individual with burglary tools based on the time, location and the owner’s behaviour. An object does not have to actually be used for it to constitute a ‘weapon’, the circumstances surrounding the object and its ability to be one is what matters.
There seems to be a little back pedalling here, in the first posts-it was that you could take your antique, slap it on your hip and walk (implied without purpose) around downtown. In addition you said that the antique could even be loaded. Now you have said you are taking the antique (in a storage box) for a legitimate reason such as you are enroute to a legal destination, with no mention that the antique is loaded. If you are strolling about with a loaded weapon on your hip and you say that you are just going for a walk because you ‘legally can’ you will be going to jail. Again it would be hard to convince a judge that going to the park to play frisbee with your buddies and a loaded antique was a reasonable and lawful activity. At the end of the day the court will decide the threat to public safety presented by you carrying a loaded ‘weapon’ in a populated urban setting. The legal force of ‘public safety’ in British common law is paramount.
The current law and its associated regulations were not drafted with the intent of allowing folks to go about armed with a handgun.
To do so in a manner which will attract attention is, in my opinion, a mind-numbingly stupid thing to do.
Currently - and perhaps temporarily - there is a set of circumstances which allow an antique pistol to be used with minimal interference. But discretion is critical, if changes are to be avoided.
To do so in a manner which will attract attention is, in my opinion, a mind-numbingly stupid thing to do.
Currently - and perhaps temporarily - there is a set of circumstances which allow an antique pistol to be used with minimal interference. But discretion is critical, if changes are to be avoided.
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- Alberta, let freedom reign!
Last two posts are pretty well bang on
Your entitled to your opinion and are free to do as you please of course. But if you are unable to discuss in a reasonable fashion without sarcasm and conjecture in a fantasy environment then a discussion is useless. I carry a 7 inch fixed blade knife on my belt 24/7 as a tool and have for years, never been charged. A screw driver that has been sharpened into something else is NOT a screw driver any more. You need to compare apples to apples and have an understanding of the law. What law am I breaking by walking through an urban environment on my way to the wilderness with my antique on my hip, not speculation of what someone MIGHT think, what law have I broken. The officer stops me and questions why I am carrying my antique on my hip and the answer would be I am on my way to the bush and I am carrying this as a tool to prevent attacks from rogue bears. Name the law and or statute I have broken, loaded or not.
Conneion123 "bang on"based on what? Are you a lawyer or an expert on the subject?
Curious to understand what makes you think that these last few comments are "bang on".
Tiriaq what knowledge do you have as to the environment that the legislation regarding antiques was drafted in, we're you part of the process?
I have discussed this very issue with a very experienced criminal lawyer and I have a legal background as well and THOUGH YOU MAY NOT WANT TO TRY WALKING AROUND WITH AN ANTIQUE ON YOUR HIP ( for those of you who have seemed to over look this statement in my many posts) it is perfectly legal as long as you are not committing an offense. And if you disagree tell me the law that has been broken, the gun is in a case, on your hip, and you are minding your business and you get challenged by a cop.
How about this, what makes it safe or legal to carry an antique when you are out in an area where you can discharge unrestricted firearms. The antique can still be considered a weapon by ALL accounts, you can still kill someone with it, you can still scare people with it, you can still carry it concealed ...etc ...etc. What is the difference if you have it in an urban environment or in a wilderness environment. In either case you still need a plausible and valid reason to carry it and in both cases it CANNOT be carried as a weapon. As you all know you can only have firearms for hunting, collecting or target practice and for NO OTHER REASON! It is against the criminal code to carry anything for personal defense, even a pencil. So what is the difference where it is carried if it is not discharged and it is NOT being carried for personal defense or the commission of an offense. The ONLY issue is whether the regulation regarding antiques in transportation comes into play. According to the Firearms Act the antique must be in a locked box to be transported And it must be unloaded. The real question is that when it is on your person is it being transported or is it part of your person? That is the only outstanding issue that my lawyer and I could find and she feels that since it is on your person it would take on the same status as your watch on your arm or the credit cards in your pocket.
Here is the Criminal Code as applied to an individual with an antique on his hip minding his business on his way to the bush.
85. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
86. (1) Every person commits an offense who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.
If I am on my way to the wilderness I certainly have a lawfull excuse. Since it is being handled in am manner constant with reasonably safety of others no foul here. As I have stated previously the only issue would be 117(h) of the Friearms Act with regards to proper transportation since the gun is on your person is it being transported or not. This is the only issue up for debate.
87.(1) DOES NOT APPLY
88.(1) DOES NOT APPLY
89. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
90. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
Sections 91 - 95 does not apply by virtue of antique status.
96. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
97.(1) REPEALED BEFORE COMMING INTO FORCE.
98. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
99 - 100 does not apply by virtue of antique status.
101. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
102. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
103 - 107 DOES NOT APPLY BY VIRTUE OF ANTIQUE STATUS.
108. (1) DOES NOT APPLY.
So there you have it this is the Criminal Code of Canada and in the scenario I have offered a guy with an antique, who does NOT need a license, registration and is in lawful possession of the antique. The guy is not contrvening any law because he is behaving himself and acting responsibley and has a lawfull excuse is walking through an urban area on his way to the wilderness and in the eyes of the law legally entitled to do so. This is my opinion, my lawyers opinion as well the Canadian National Firearms Associtions opinion. When you rebut my post please do so in a professional manner with some sort of fact and law and please reframe from personal opinions based on tales of horror and the boogie man. For the law enforcement guys we already know you trample on everyone's rights anyway and are NOT very familiar with most laws so know where I stand before your spout your rhetoric. My opinion is based on the fact of law and how it is supposed to be, not necessarily how it is.
NOW TELL ME WHAT LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN WHEN I WALK THROUGH TOWN ON MY WAY TO THE WILDERNESS!
Curious to understand what makes you think that these last few comments are "bang on".
Tiriaq what knowledge do you have as to the environment that the legislation regarding antiques was drafted in, we're you part of the process?
I have discussed this very issue with a very experienced criminal lawyer and I have a legal background as well and THOUGH YOU MAY NOT WANT TO TRY WALKING AROUND WITH AN ANTIQUE ON YOUR HIP ( for those of you who have seemed to over look this statement in my many posts) it is perfectly legal as long as you are not committing an offense. And if you disagree tell me the law that has been broken, the gun is in a case, on your hip, and you are minding your business and you get challenged by a cop.
How about this, what makes it safe or legal to carry an antique when you are out in an area where you can discharge unrestricted firearms. The antique can still be considered a weapon by ALL accounts, you can still kill someone with it, you can still scare people with it, you can still carry it concealed ...etc ...etc. What is the difference if you have it in an urban environment or in a wilderness environment. In either case you still need a plausible and valid reason to carry it and in both cases it CANNOT be carried as a weapon. As you all know you can only have firearms for hunting, collecting or target practice and for NO OTHER REASON! It is against the criminal code to carry anything for personal defense, even a pencil. So what is the difference where it is carried if it is not discharged and it is NOT being carried for personal defense or the commission of an offense. The ONLY issue is whether the regulation regarding antiques in transportation comes into play. According to the Firearms Act the antique must be in a locked box to be transported And it must be unloaded. The real question is that when it is on your person is it being transported or is it part of your person? That is the only outstanding issue that my lawyer and I could find and she feels that since it is on your person it would take on the same status as your watch on your arm or the credit cards in your pocket.
Here is the Criminal Code as applied to an individual with an antique on his hip minding his business on his way to the bush.
85. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
86. (1) Every person commits an offense who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.
If I am on my way to the wilderness I certainly have a lawfull excuse. Since it is being handled in am manner constant with reasonably safety of others no foul here. As I have stated previously the only issue would be 117(h) of the Friearms Act with regards to proper transportation since the gun is on your person is it being transported or not. This is the only issue up for debate.
87.(1) DOES NOT APPLY
88.(1) DOES NOT APPLY
89. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
90. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
Sections 91 - 95 does not apply by virtue of antique status.
96. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
97.(1) REPEALED BEFORE COMMING INTO FORCE.
98. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
99 - 100 does not apply by virtue of antique status.
101. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
102. (1) DOES NOT APPLY
103 - 107 DOES NOT APPLY BY VIRTUE OF ANTIQUE STATUS.
108. (1) DOES NOT APPLY.
So there you have it this is the Criminal Code of Canada and in the scenario I have offered a guy with an antique, who does NOT need a license, registration and is in lawful possession of the antique. The guy is not contrvening any law because he is behaving himself and acting responsibley and has a lawfull excuse is walking through an urban area on his way to the wilderness and in the eyes of the law legally entitled to do so. This is my opinion, my lawyers opinion as well the Canadian National Firearms Associtions opinion. When you rebut my post please do so in a professional manner with some sort of fact and law and please reframe from personal opinions based on tales of horror and the boogie man. For the law enforcement guys we already know you trample on everyone's rights anyway and are NOT very familiar with most laws so know where I stand before your spout your rhetoric. My opinion is based on the fact of law and how it is supposed to be, not necessarily how it is.
NOW TELL ME WHAT LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN WHEN I WALK THROUGH TOWN ON MY WAY TO THE WILDERNESS!
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Bear in mind the above definition of what constitutes a ‘weapon’ under the Criminal Code of Canada
From the Criminal Lawyers Association of Canada:
“It is an offence in Canada to possess a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public’s peace or for the purpose of committing a criminal offence.”
Here is their definition of a ‘purpose dangerous to the public’s peace’:
“A purpose dangerous to the public’s peace includes, but not limited to, a disruption of the “normal state of society” and a disturbance of “the general peace and order of the realm as provided for by law”. It is an, “unquiet and harmful behaviour towards the Queen and her people” according to various legal definitions.”
In addition:
“A person's initial intent in possessing a weapon does not necessarily remain constant and may change to a dangerous intent even though the initial purpose in taking possession was not a dangerous one.”
These are the broad strokes of the law so that they can be used to protect and promote the public safety.
From the Criminal Lawyers Association of Canada:
“It is an offence in Canada to possess a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public’s peace or for the purpose of committing a criminal offence.”
Here is their definition of a ‘purpose dangerous to the public’s peace’:
“A purpose dangerous to the public’s peace includes, but not limited to, a disruption of the “normal state of society” and a disturbance of “the general peace and order of the realm as provided for by law”. It is an, “unquiet and harmful behaviour towards the Queen and her people” according to various legal definitions.”
In addition:
“A person's initial intent in possessing a weapon does not necessarily remain constant and may change to a dangerous intent even though the initial purpose in taking possession was not a dangerous one.”
These are the broad strokes of the law so that they can be used to protect and promote the public safety.
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What law has been broken? You keep on with the "criminal intent" scenario when there isn't any criminal intent. Quick making it up as you go. What law has been broken, just answer the question if you have fact.
Oh for sure let's close down the thread since it is one of the few threads that actually deals with an important an interesting topic. Yes let's close the thread because someone posting actually supports his opinion with fact and examples. Heaven forbid that real insightful thought and dialogue has been initiated on a subject that is important and that you don't fully understand. What the kids at MacDonalds play land giving you a hard time.......
Oh for sure let's close down the thread since it is one of the few threads that actually deals with an important an interesting topic. Yes let's close the thread because someone posting actually supports his opinion with fact and examples. Heaven forbid that real insightful thought and dialogue has been initiated on a subject that is important and that you don't fully understand. What the kids at MacDonalds play land giving you a hard time.......
based on common sence and the way things are written in the regs we do have, i think if you were walking with it in and area where it can not be legaly fired they would consider it being transported so locked case would apply.
If your in and area where its OK to shoot a none restricted then it would be in Use and holster carry would be aok.
Two diffrent situations.
In a public place they could just charge you with mischeif and let a judge decide.
in any case i think its a bad idea i wouldnt do it and i would tell anyone who thought about doing it to give there head a good shake.
there to many angles they could come at you from.
If your in and area where its OK to shoot a none restricted then it would be in Use and holster carry would be aok.
Two diffrent situations.
In a public place they could just charge you with mischeif and let a judge decide.
in any case i think its a bad idea i wouldnt do it and i would tell anyone who thought about doing it to give there head a good shake.
there to many angles they could come at you from.
I agree with you completely but only because law enforcement are anti gun, control freaks and bullies but my posistion is that it would be legal to do and any charge would stem from a misuse of power. I certainly would not recommend doing any such thing unless you have money to prove a point, as I have stated all along it is not advisable. Mischief could not even be considered in any lawful scenario but the post I made was just to broaden everyones understanding of the law regarding antiques and I think it is self evident that it would be legal BUT not advisable.
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