blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Im 28 and my grade ten history class had a pretty extensive component of both World War 1 and World War II history.
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Canada's military history (among other things)
- Thread starter Kirk1701
- Start date
Im 28 and my grade ten history class had a pretty extensive component of both World War 1 and World War II history.
I'm 40 and my grade 10 history class hardly scratched the surface of WWI and WWII and Korea was just a footnote.
kids these days don't open a book and read unless they are forced too. And their is little room for individual thought everyone must fit in the cookie cutter mold.
Most of them learn whatever the TV and game box tell them
even with doing tours around the museum for school kids sometimes half of them just wander off after about 5 minutes maybe 2 or 3 stick it out for the whole tour and if I'm lucky one kid will ask questions. all while I'm asking them questions and trying to have them learn. Other times you'll have the entire class packed into a tiny space trying to see what your talking about.
as for youtube wars trolls be trolling and must smashed with the biggest hammer possible.
Most of them learn whatever the TV and game box tell them
even with doing tours around the museum for school kids sometimes half of them just wander off after about 5 minutes maybe 2 or 3 stick it out for the whole tour and if I'm lucky one kid will ask questions. all while I'm asking them questions and trying to have them learn. Other times you'll have the entire class packed into a tiny space trying to see what your talking about.
as for youtube wars trolls be trolling and must smashed with the biggest hammer possible.
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One thing that a person can do to help out on this is to do some research on a particular episode in history and then offer to present it at a local school or other forum. I've given a few presentations on topics like peacekeeping and the war in Afghanistan and am booked to give a presentation on the Korean War at the local library in Nov. I have a couple more topics in the hopper, incl the Canadian Army in Italy and the background to the current situation in Syria. For those who have served, the schools are always interested in having a veteran talk about war and remembrance around Nov 11th. The kids seem to take very well to someone showing up wearing a jacket and tie and some gongs and talking about the idea of service and sacrifice.
I'd also bet there's very few, even on CGN, who could name a Canadian VC winner without having to look up the names....
What you know is wrong. That people fought and died isn't the only reason we have those social programs. It isn't much of the reason at all.
We have our "social" programs because so many people worked and lived in ways that created wealth and because enough people were persuaded to vote for politicians who taxed that wealth and spent it on social programs. If the country hadn't been involved in those wars and the wealth was still there, politicians probably would have done the same thing. If the wealth wasn't there we wouldn't have the social programs even if people had fought and died in wars.
The CDN government of the day just about crapped their pants that Canadian soldiers got into a wild slugest while "peacekeeping" which was the big feel good thing/myth the population bought into. The Canadian Forces of the 1990s where on life support and I know in my heart of hearts the liberals would have loved to disband the whole lot. Personally I hated being called one of Canada,s "peacekeepers" like the CF was a lackey of the UN and liberals. Sadly it took a lunatic in a cave in Afghanistan to turn that train wreak around.
Avalonthas
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto ON
I'd rather not develop a larger pool of entitled leachers. We don't waste money on our military actions, we waste it giving away briefcases of money to other countries without any expectation it will work or if we get a return on the investment.
I think the cover-up was just as much about not wanting to admit that PTSD was a real condition as it was about denying that our soldiers got into a slugfest. The gov't wanted to hide that dark consequence of deployment and combat and didn't want the public to be made more aware of the horrors and reality of armed conflict. "We are simply keeping the peace and protecting the innocent by driving around in our white vehicles, wearing our blue berets, and handing out chocolates to poor dirty children."
The 1990s were a ruinous time for the Canadian Forces where we saw the full impact of both the Conservative and Liberal spending cuts and the corrosive impact of the Somalia imbroglio. There is no doubt in my simple military mind that the Liberals, and the politically inclined leadership of the CF, incl the incumbent CDS (De Chastelain) and DM (Fowler), saw the Medak Pocket incident as a reversal of the kinder/gentler/peacekeeping image that the politicians wanted. It was yet another "aberrant incident" with the Army shooting, and maybe even killing people, which they did not want to deal with in the aftermath of the Somalia affair. It was deliberately suppressed for this reason. Calvin, the CO 2PPCLI at Medak, performed very well in the circumstances and in other times would have been celebrated as a hero. As it turned out, he was promoted once more and retired in obscurity while some of his more political contemporaries went on to wear the stars.
The other very damaging theme during the 1990s was the adoption of bureaucratic/civilian imperatives, most of which were contrary to those in our military ethos which had been the basis of our professionalism and military effectiveness over the years. Again, top leaders in uniform grabbed these and ran with them. I ran the other way and retired early as I couldn't stomach watching it all go to hell in a handbasket. This was how the railroad was running at the time and nobody wanted to hear anything to the contrary. The war in Afghanistan turned a lot of this around as people at all levels got re-aquainted with the essential concept that a military only exists to be ready to fight and win, and to suffer and die if necessary to do this. I have been involved with the Army as a consultant and contract trainer for the past 16 years and I continue to be impressed with the levels of skill and professionalism among the young leaders who I work with.
The other very damaging theme during the 1990s was the adoption of bureaucratic/civilian imperatives, most of which were contrary to those in our military ethos which had been the basis of our professionalism and military effectiveness over the years. Again, top leaders in uniform grabbed these and ran with them. I ran the other way and retired early as I couldn't stomach watching it all go to hell in a handbasket. This was how the railroad was running at the time and nobody wanted to hear anything to the contrary. The war in Afghanistan turned a lot of this around as people at all levels got re-aquainted with the essential concept that a military only exists to be ready to fight and win, and to suffer and die if necessary to do this. I have been involved with the Army as a consultant and contract trainer for the past 16 years and I continue to be impressed with the levels of skill and professionalism among the young leaders who I work with.
Purple. Well said and insightfull. Personally I hope the CF is not looking at "Dark Decade PtII" after the steep/expensive and painfull learning curve of Afghanistan. Your right on about the skill and professionalism of todays soldiers and leaders.
You're telling me the Kaiser or Hitler wouldn't have kept rolling across the Atlantic? Politics mean nothing if you're ruled by dictatorship. This is a worst case scenario, granted, but you're assuming that our dominion would still exist had we not fought those wars.
People voted for humanitarian programs because most at that time had seen the worst of humanity in two world wars. I don't believe anyone's good will is enough to make social programs stick.
No, I'm not telling you Germany in either war wouldn't have rolled across the Atlantic, but neither should you assume that they would have. (And your assumption that I am assuming our dominion would still exist has we not fought those wars is incorrect.)
People voted for social programs before WWII and people born decades after who didn't see and largely haven't heard of the horrors of war are voting for social programs today. They vote for them because politicians and others persuade them that by doing so they are being "good" and because they believe the programs are affordable. If those wars hadn't occurred politicians would probably be telling us the same things to get us to vote for things. And if we didn't vote for the social programs or couldn't pay for them they wouldn't occur, and if that were the case the fact that some of our people fought and died in wars wouldn't cause the social programs to exist.
- Location
- West Quebec
Revolutionary idea...
