Press Check?

TDC said:
I think a press check is a complete waste of time. Press checks are administrative which means they're not time sensitive. Press checking the slide involves manually pulling the slide back and out of battery which is a dumb idea. Checking magazine capacity before and after chambering a round does not involve disturbing the slide/action and accomplishes the same task. Checking for a seated magazine is much easier and less intrusive than manually playing with the slide/action. Seeing as how during a match or other time sensitive shooting event, no one does a press check as everyone relies on their ability to seat a magazine and chamber a round; why would you not trust yourself and your equipment for the admin load? Keep on mind that all your time sensitive reloads are done under stress and could also be done in awkward positions and/or sub optimal lighting conditions. If there's a chance for mistake it likely won't be during the admin load, so why second guess yourself and do a press check with the potential of inducing a stoppage with an out of battery slide?

As I said, I have no time for a press check, I trust the design, I can feel the round being stripped and fed and I watch the round chamber.

As for an lci and in this case those found on glocks. I have to ask why some feel it is useless? Its visual and tactile and it always works.

Tdc
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Finally, something we disagree on!

I do a press check as part of my practice, and before every stage of every match I ever shoot.
I do it because I've seen people "click" their first round, and I once performed an incomplete admin load with sweaty hands. I knew that I didn't pull the slide fully to the rear and a press check confirmed it. I saw that it was possible to miss that slip-up, so I continue to press-check.

Now, I do agree that it is adding to the process, and adding steps usually adds room for error.
That being said, the admin reload is not time sensitive. I have all the time in the world to perform it, and I use as much time as I need.
It is a methodical, and precise process that has been repeated just as an IA is repeated in practice.

A press check is useless in low light unless you add a tactile feel.
As for the M&P not requiring it, I can't see brass when it's dark, so that gun gets a press check just as my Glock does.

My process:
Draw empty gun from holster, punch out and align sights on target (just for repetition),
Pull gun back towards me and twist the grip in the direction of my mag holder while grabbing the rearmost mag.
Insert mag sharply, roll hand over gun and rip the slide backwards with enough force to hit myself in the chest.
Grab front of slide with reaction hand, and open the ejection port ~1/2" so that I can both see and touch the round in the chamber.
Release the slide, and bump the rear of the slide to ensure that it is in battery.
Re-holster and be alert.

Same steps, every time. Performed quickly, but never rushed.

There is nothing wrong with using the LCI, so long as it is a tactile touch, and it is performed so often that you couldn't possibly be wrong when telling yourself that it's gtg.

As for Speed Reloads compared to Admin Reloads, I don't think we can compare them because time is a factor for one, and a not a factor for the other.
An Admin Reload guarantees that you're ready, a Speed Reload keeps you in the game/fight.

I can admit that it is at best 1% necessary, but because I know that mistakes are possible, I eliminate the potential for those mistakes where time allows me to. If time didn't allow it, it would no longer be an Admin Reload.

One thing that I wondered was if adding a Press Check to my practice would affect my Immediate Action under stress.
I am happy to report that it has not. I have been pushed to perform IAs under stress both in training and during matches, and have no problem performing them without thinking about double checking my gun.

The double-check(press check) happens before the stress starts, not in the middle of it.

eta:
forgot to mention the mag check...

I use the mag check (left/right feed) on my AR because it works 100%.
I don't do this with my glock because some glock mags don't read 9, or 10 rounds properly, and they're tough to push at 9/10 loaded so I find it more difficult to be sure than by seeing/touching brass in the chamber.
 
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This is an interesting feature I saw on the M&P Shield. For California compliance. Tells the bad guy whether your gun has a round chambered or not. :p
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I know it's an unnecessary step and I know when the gun is loaded since my stripper only has one or two rounds in it. I can also feel it load. But I use it as part of my mental prep routine when given the command to load. It's the last visual confirmation that everything is good to go before I holster and wait for the beep. It's used as a redundancy check just in case I've been distracted by a chatty ro, noise, whatever. Think of is a a cathartic physical and mental sub-routine that I run the same way every time.
 
relliott said:
I know it's an unnecessary step and I know when the gun is loaded since my stripper only has one or two rounds in it. I can also feel it load. But I use it as part of my mental prep routine when given the command to load. It's the last visual confirmation that everything is good to go before I holster and wait for the beep. It's used as a redundancy check just in case I've been distracted by a chatty ro, noise, whatever. Think of is a a cathartic physical and mental sub-routine that I run the same way every time.
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That's pretty much how I view it as well.

Every time I get out of my car I physically check to make sure I'm holding my keys before I close the door. I once left the keys in the ignition and it was a pain in the ass. Trust, but verify.
 
misanthropist said:
That's pretty much how I view it as well.

Every time I get out of my car I physically check to make sure I'm holding my keys before I close the door. I once left the keys in the ignition and it was a pain in the ass. Trust, but verify.
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I know all you guys are much too young to be concerned, but routines like checking for your keys get much more important with advancing age. I waste time in a myriad of ways so a bit of redundancy in my gun handling routines won't bother anyone but if it does, too bad.
 
The only time I have ever press checked is when something feels off during the LAMR. Otherwise I just go.

If I was carrying a gun for self-defense, then maybe, otherwise I'm not overly concerned about it.

In all the LAMRs I've been though, I think I have press checked 2 or 3 times. A full and complete racking of the slide during the LAMR has always chambered a round for me....always.
 
If my gun didn't reliable load a round I would fix it. If it happened for the first time in a match I would lose a second or two and not really care, it's not life or death, just a match.
 
Antoine22 said:
I peek down my barrel. If I don't see my firing pin channel, I know I'm hot.
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nailed it

Regarding press checks, I've never done one. I can tell the difference between my CZ75 closing on a round and closing empty. It's the only autoloader I own. I also keep only one round in the barney magazine so if it comes out empty I know I'm ready to roll.
 
metcalfe said:
Finally, something we disagree on!

I do a press check as part of my practice, and before every stage of every match I ever shoot.
I do it because I've seen people "click" their first round, and I once performed an incomplete admin load with sweaty hands. I knew that I didn't pull the slide fully to the rear and a press check confirmed it. I saw that it was possible to miss that slip-up, so I continue to press-check.

Now, I do agree that it is adding to the process, and adding steps usually adds room for error.
That being said, the admin reload is not time sensitive. I have all the time in the world to perform it, and I use as much time as I need.
It is a methodical, and precise process that has been repeated just as an IA is repeated in practice.

A press check is useless in low light unless you add a tactile feel.
As for the M&P not requiring it, I can't see brass when it's dark, so that gun gets a press check just as my Glock does.

My process:
Draw empty gun from holster, punch out and align sights on target (just for repetition),
Pull gun back towards me and twist the grip in the direction of my mag holder while grabbing the rearmost mag.
Insert mag sharply, roll hand over gun and rip the slide backwards with enough force to hit myself in the chest.
Grab front of slide with reaction hand, and open the ejection port ~1/2" so that I can both see and touch the round in the chamber.
Release the slide, and bump the rear of the slide to ensure that it is in battery.
Re-holster and be alert.

Same steps, every time. Performed quickly, but never rushed.

There is nothing wrong with using the LCI, so long as it is a tactile touch, and it is performed so often that you couldn't possibly be wrong when telling yourself that it's gtg.

As for Speed Reloads compared to Admin Reloads, I don't think we can compare them because time is a factor for one, and a not a factor for the other.
An Admin Reload guarantees that you're ready, a Speed Reload keeps you in the game/fight.

I can admit that it is at best 1% necessary, but because I know that mistakes are possible, I eliminate the potential for those mistakes where time allows me to. If time didn't allow it, it would no longer be an Admin Reload.

One thing that I wondered was if adding a Press Check to my practice would affect my Immediate Action under stress.
I am happy to report that it has not. I have been pushed to perform IAs under stress both in training and during matches, and have no problem performing them without thinking about double checking my gun.

The double-check(press check) happens before the stress starts, not in the middle of it.

eta:
forgot to mention the mag check...

I use the mag check (left/right feed) on my AR because it works 100%.
I don't do this with my glock because some glock mags don't read 9, or 10 rounds properly, and they're tough to push at 9/10 loaded so I find it more difficult to be sure than by seeing/touching brass in the chamber.
Click to expand...

Observing others experiencing an empty chamber has everything to do with a poor load/reload procedure, not the absence of a press check/chamber check. Admin loads are not time sensitive, so take the time and do it right. Insert magazine and ensure it is seated. When you're mid stage you never doubt that the magazine is seated and that your gun is in fact loading ammo as needed. So I ask again, why the paranoia and belief that the gun hasn't loaded in an administrative environment? Your failure to load due to sweaty hands can be rectified by cycling the action again. If you're unsure if you've chambered a round, rack the slide. Watching the chamber when you load and aggressively retracting the slide to its full length eliminates such problems. Your process appears to do exactly that.

An empty chamber is solved with the same process as a failure to fire due to an out of battery slide, with an IA. Both conditions can be induced during the loading process. Manually manipulating the slide for a press check is looking for trouble, especially on guns with a hammer.

As for a press check/chamber check in the dark, its an admin task, use a flashlight. If you use the mag check method on rifles, why not keep it consistent and do it for handguns as well? You mention the witness holes don't always align with the rounds left and you're right some magazines don't. What you can do is depress the top round slightly and watch for movement through the witness holes. For the competitor its much easier to simply run a starter mag with a single round in it. Chamber the round, dump the mag and insert another full magazine.


relliott said:
I know it's an unnecessary step and I know when the gun is loaded since my stripper only has one or two rounds in it. I can also feel it load. But I use it as part of my mental prep routine when given the command to load. It's the last visual confirmation that everything is good to go before I holster and wait for the beep. It's used as a redundancy check just in case I've been distracted by a chatty ro, noise, whatever. Think of is a a cathartic physical and mental sub-routine that I run the same way every time.
Click to expand...

Its an admin load, distractions shouldn't be a factor as time is not one. I've on more than one occasion told the RO to stop talking while I load. A good RO won't interrupt you while you load and make ready, its your run, not his.

TDC
 
The press check is a procedure devised for and by combat arms troops.

It isn't something necessary for the well rested and fed competitor who is shooting a course of fire.

It is intended for those guys running on half rations for the last week and/or five hours sleep in the last three days as a last chance to make sure that their primary and/or secondary will go bang when they really need it to.

And press checks should always be tactile at night to maintain light discipline.

-S.
 
"...peek down my barrel..." That'll get you thrown off most ranges. Pointing a firearm anywhere but down range will get you kicked out.
You should need to check to see if your firearm is loaded or not. You should always know.
 
sunray said:
"...peek down my barrel..." That'll get you thrown off most ranges. Pointing a firearm anywhere but down range will get you kicked out.
You should need to check to see if your firearm is loaded or not. You should always know.
Click to expand...

Swing and a miss with the scarcasm detector....
 
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