Most popular 3 Gun shotgun set ups in Canada?

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xopher

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Hi,

I'm looking to start into 3 Gun and im curious about shotgun set ups thanks to our gun laws/magazine capacity restrictions.

I have a hard time deciding whether its more beneficially to initiate the least amount of loading sequences using a pump with no magazine capacity limitations or reduce my time by shooting a semi over a pump. This idea is definitely being left on the back burner while the snow kicks in, but i'd love to have everything ready for this coming spring/summer
 
The stages we do around here almost all start with either empty gun or limit of 5 in tube, so on those stages capacity barely comes into play (when during a stage a pump can throw 8 or 10 into the tube and a semi can only put 6 b/c of semi's tube capacity limit). If you could always start with full gun then it would be a much bigger advantage to use a pump.
 
We seem to be very hung up on capacity as it pertains to perceived advantage/disadvantage within a match.
Any advantage you think having high capacity gives can easily be rendered moot via stage design or match rules.
From what I've seen it doesn't matter how many rounds your mag holds.
if you can't reload efficiently.... you're pooched.
 
667 said:
We seem to be very hung up on capacity as it pertains to perceived advantage/disadvantage within a match.
Any advantage you think having high capacity gives can easily be rendered moot via stage design or match rules.
From what I've seen it doesn't matter how many rounds your mag holds.
if you can't reload efficiently.... you're pooched.
Click to expand...

This right here^
Dosnt matter what your shooting pick the gun you like and learn how to run it properly. Practice will be the deciding factor not what gun your holding case in point I out shoot a guy at my range and hes using a m4 and it im using a beat to crap 11-87 and a guy using a pos 870 express who walks all over me.
 
The more important question as brought up here is how well can you reload, and which method of reloading are you going to go with. Shotgun reloading is often the make-it or break-it part of 3 gun competitions, and if you can't reload well you will not do well in most cases. Take my word for it, this comes from first hand experience f:P:2::ang

I originally loaded with the caddies (6 rounders, then the 4x4 from AP Customs), and never really got comfortable with them. I now use the load 2 and load 4 methods (I have the AP Customs ones again and love them, but there are several options out there), and with literally 15 minutes of practice had cut my load to 8 rounds time to 1/3 of the caddies time b:
Just to be clear though, I'm still way too slow :cool:

The choice of semi versus pump is very subjective, and there are many different shotguns in each category that will work very well. The key is practice and knowing your firearm mechanics, and especially how to deal with malfunctions quickly and efficiently.

lonedrone
 
As an example... Patrick Kelley demos 8 rounds in under 5 secs
Fwd to 1:30 to get right to the action

[youtube]ADdhHRrU1Y8[/youtube]
 
Droppin deuces is fine, and admittedly much easier to learn.

Loading from 4X4s becomes very fast with training. On this video, fast forward to 1:13 to see "shot fired - reload 8 - shot fired" in 4.82 seconds, from a 4X4 carrier:



And 4X4s take up MUCH less real estate on your belt. The big disadvantage that I see with this setup is that most (but not all) 4X4 designs require that you reload four shells at a time, otherwise the shells left in that row will bounce out under heavy movement.
 
alpining said:
...Loading from 4X4s becomes very fast with training. On this video, fast forward to 1:13 to see "shot fired - reload 8 - shot fired" in 4.82 seconds, from a 4X4 carrier...
Click to expand...

I'd like to see your video of loading 8 rounds from 4x4 in under 5 seconds. In my experience you have to be Keith Garsia to be able to do that.

Now compare it with quad load in under 3 seconds:

 
What has been already said about reload speed is definitely the truth. You can definitely do well with a pump if you practice.

If you are willing to spend the money to properly kit out a semi so that you have 7 rounds of 2 3/4" in the tube, then the semi auto action will give you a slight speed advantage if all other factors are equal, but if you suck at reloads you are going to suck no matter which way you go.

The semis are a little more forgiving in some respects as you can short stroke a pump, but that is operator error and solvable with practice.

I would say it pretty much comes down to what your budget is. Pumps are cheaper.
 
euxx, I must be missing something. I thought we're comparing how fast the various reloading methods can be, not how fast you and I can reload. I don't expect anyone to care how fast I am.

Your quad load vid is fast, for sure. Fastest 8-rd reload I've seen on video. I haven't honestly looked around for a "fastest" 4X4 reload vid, that's just one that I happened to have handy that serves the purpose. To be fair, if we're doing head-to-head comparisons, then you have to add in the time for an aimed shot at the beginning and end of each reload string. Just seeing your vid, though, I'm not very optimistic that the 4X4 method could win (all things being equal: comparable shooters with comparable levels of reload practice).

But I've also never seen anyone grab four shells exactly like what is shown above, and it makes me curious as to how great a factor large hand size is in preventing fumbling using that method. Comments?
 
My record is 12 rounds in a six second par time. Starting and ending with a front sight picture

Looking back I can't believe I was so reluctant to learn the quad load
 
I think the message is clear, you need to be able to load the sg to be competitive in 3gun...... but nobody has address the original question.

In the past few years that i've been shooting 3g both in the US and Canada the Benelli M2 has dominated the field.

In the US, semi is the way to go unless you want to play in the Heavy Metal division then a pump is required.

In standard/limited division.
With ghost loading, i can start with 6+1+1 in the M2. I'll give up one round of capacity for all the other benefits of shooting a semi.
To me, the whole mag capacity is moot point, unless the matches that you're shooting consist mostly of speed shoots without any movement.

In southern Ontario where my experience of 3gun has been in Canada , initially there was quite a few people using pumps due to the magazine capacity advantage. Within a couple of seasons though, i noticed quite a few shooters switching to semis. Some starting with other brands but eventually settling on the M2. There's a couple of new contenders on the market for M2 .... some have fizzled, some are yet proven, one of them can surpass the M2 someday.

IMHO, th Benelli M2 is still the sg of choice.
 
Use what works for you and don't be afraid to try a different method. In my limited experience fastest and personal fastest all take a back seat to the method you can do without fumble 99 times out of 100. Smooth without screw ups and a little slower is often better than running on the ragged edge for me.
 
Pick whatever you like.
Become proficient with it and you will be competitive.

[youtube]nSMOoqaGAT4[/youtube]
 
alpining said:
euxx, I must be missing something. I thought we're comparing how fast the various reloading methods can be, not how fast you and I can reload. I don't expect anyone to care how fast I am.
Click to expand...

I was trying to make a point. It will take a huge effort and months of practice to be able to nail down weak hand load 4 method in under 5 seconds and I don't believe it will be possible to load under 3 using that method.

With load 2 or quad load, you can be loading in under 5 seconds after few hours of practice. Literally...

Obviously you do need a very different shell holder for this load.

alpining said:
But I've also never seen anyone grab four shells exactly like what is shown above, and it makes me curious as to how great a factor large hand size is in preventing fumbling using that method. Comments?
Click to expand...

Actually, large hand can be a disadvantage for quad load and I yet to see hand that can't hold 4 shells like that...
 
Standing in front of the mirror beating par time doesn't win matches is what i'm told by the experts.....
Search the enos site. All this has been discussed by far more experienced and accomplished shooters already.
 
xopher said:
Hi,

I'm looking to start into 3 Gun and im curious about shotgun set ups thanks to our gun laws/magazine capacity restrictions.

I have a hard time deciding whether its more beneficially to initiate the least amount of loading sequences using a pump with no magazine capacity limitations or reduce my time by shooting a semi over a pump. This idea is definitely being left on the back burner while the snow kicks in, but i'd love to have everything ready for this coming spring/summer
Click to expand...

It has been said that if you can load 1 shell per second while on the clock during a match, then you are doing better than the majority of the people around you.
If you can consistently do better than that in match conditions, then you are ahead of the game.

A big time killer in shotgun shooting is missing and unnecessary reloads.
Like I mentioned, if a good time is a second a shell, how much time are you wasting if you are missing and reloading?

Regardless if you are using a semi or pump, you will have to shoot the same targets and reload roughly the same number of shells during the average course of fire.
The key is being good with whatever equipment you use, and have a stage plan set so you don't load any more shells that you need to complete the stage.
Every shell you rack out of the gun at the end of a stage is a second you could have saved on your stage time.
 
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