Suprising business idea

Musketfire

Musketfire

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Hi guys, well I have been thinking "wife thinks thats usually a sign of trouble".

Why is there no one in Canada that produces obsolete ammunition? Now I know a few fellows provide brass but Im talking about packages of loaded and ready ammunition for more common antique cartridge arms such as the snider and the Martini arms.

Make facsimiles of the old paper wrapped packages etc etc, a quality type of product and packaging.


What are the legalities of such a business regarding shipping and production?

The demand is there with a modest profit to be had.



What do you think?
 
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there's a license you need. but if people are buying ammo for both snider and martini id want solid head cases proper size bullets and real black powder

problem is for both martini and snider solid cases are not cheap cheapest I have found them is $5 a piece. proper bullet size would depend on the gun mk1 to mk3 a .465"-.468" and mk4 a .468"-.470" would be needed. sniders could like anything from a .585"-.600" round balls or slugs and there is two different types of rifling in the snider a slow twist 3 groove with 1 in 78" twist it likes round balls and short conical bullets and a 5 groove witch is 1 in 48" longer bullets are needed

also lee dies are complete garbage and over work brass big time id get a CH4D set
 
I'm assuming that you already know the prices of the cartridge cases for some of these obsolete calibers, although those we get here in yUK are made in Australia by Bertram, and we seem to have oodles of them here in UK. Reloading is the norm here, unless you have an obsolete African calibre, in which case Kynamco make em. I won't quote prices, but they start at horrendous and go up from there. As an aside, the .450x3 1/4 BPE cartridges I was shooting the other week - blithely shooting forty or fifty away in the morning session, were $13.80 each from Kynamco, but, bearing in mind that they were being shot for the first time - so the case had to be treated as a one-time deal - they were down to a mere $6.20 each time I squoze that trigger.

Back to your post - unless if you can figure out how to make a generic bullet that works in ALL Sniders - and my three vary from .582 to .590 - you're on to a loser.

You will have to register your concern as an ammunition manufacturer, as well...................................AND submit your product for testing and safe practice. As Canada does not seem to have any ammunition manufacturing these days [please put me right if I'm wrong], the national authorities would have to start over from scratch with your products. And then you'll have the product liability requirements, and insurance against mishaps......whose powder, whose primers, whose bullets and so on.

That's a few of the things in your way - I'm sure that those more au fait with the manufacturing and product licensing process can move on from there.

tac
 
Great posts gentlemen, As a generic product you would I imagine have to start with a basic product, light loaded plinking rounds maybe engineered for safety, you could start "in order to get business moving" to make rounds less focused on stout military loadings but with basic rounds made with safety in mind- kinda like the American ten-x but packaged better.

You get the basics going with a basic product then expand your product line after the base is established. Heck the person that could/would START such a business would theoretically lay the groundwork for others to get into the industry.

We have a need domestically

How do we fill such a need?


I would buy if such a service was offered "im cheap" so I imagine many others would buy aswell, and at much higher volumes then me.
 
LOL your wife is right! LOL
All you hear on these boards are folks crying about the outrageous cost of brass, bullets and powder. Can't you imagine the responce to the $$$ needed for custom sized and rolled ctgs. and BP shipping charges?!!!
Like tac says, the Gov red tape alone would kill ya'!!
LOL be carefull what you wish for! LOL
 
Good call, heck even I would complain.....!!WHAT!! 60 bucks for 12 rounds!!

I would complain....then buy.


The business would have to start at a premium to pay off all the red tape commissariat fees.

That initial 60$$ investment in 12 rounds could be far less if the business offered reloading of company brass.

Keep the ideas/criticisms/thoughts going on this one.
 
The .32, .38 and .41RF plus pin fires are already spoken for by HC collections and dixie ect. That leaves you with the 8mm lebel R, .44's and 45/.450's which fiocchi is still cranking out so that's a no go.

So yeah basically stuck with mainly the big bore rifles, hard to say if it would be doable.
 
Musketfire said:
Great posts gentlemen, As a generic product you would I imagine have to start with a basic product, light loaded plinking rounds maybe engineered for safety, you could start "in order to get business moving" to make rounds less focused on stout military loadings but with basic rounds made with safety in mind- kinda like the American ten-x but packaged better.

You get the basics going with a basic product then expand your product line after the base is established. Heck the person that could/would START such a business would theoretically lay the groundwork for others to get into the industry.

We have a need domestically

How do we fill such a need?


I would buy if such a service was offered "im cheap" so I imagine many others would buy aswell, and at much higher volumes then me.
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problem is a light load of what id only trust smokeless in a mk4 martini henry and anything less then the military load will not shoot to the sights ten-x btw is not the greatest ammo around they use 777 which for all intensive purposes is a smokeless powder and very corrosive and anything but black powder in a snider is asking for something to go wrong
 
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I think that real RF ammunition would find a ready market. .25, .32, .38, .41 for sure, maybe larger ones like .44 and the Spencers.
But producing these would require a real ammunition manufacturing facility.
 
There are several businesses in Canada that make reloaded ammo, including sponsors of this site. This wouldn't be much different as far as i can see. Those businesses got a license and you should be able to do the same thing. Start at NRCAN and work down.

In fact I have read an advertsiement for a business (in SK, I think) that specializes in producing ammo and reloading for antique and obsolte cartridges. Don't remember the name but i think they had an ad in the reloading section of FAC.
 
tiriaq said:
I think that real RF ammunition would find a ready market. .25, .32, .38, .41 for sure, maybe larger ones like .44 and the Spencers.
But producing these would require a real ammunition manufacturing facility.
Click to expand...

id love to see reloadable .44 henry,.41 swiss,.56-56 spencer cases the .44 henry and .41 swiss would need one .22 primer and a cut out for the firing pin on the other side or 2 .22 primers
 
tiriaq said:
I think that real RF ammunition would find a ready market. .25, .32, .38, .41 for sure, maybe larger ones like .44 and the Spencers.
But producing these would require a real ammunition manufacturing facility.
Click to expand...

Agreed!!

So I think the main question is how can one legally operate then ship the product to individual residences/persons in the smallest capacity.

What are the minimum requirements to meet the official designation of ammunition manufacturing facility??


The money is literally in a huge pile waiting for a legal path to get to it.


Think of it, how many of us jerry rig all kinds of obscure cartridges investing significant funds in the process, imagine how much money is invested yearly by just those of us on this subsection of canadiangunnutz alone.

The demand is there, so we need the will and the money to get such a thing started.


Anyone here a lawyer?
 
antiqueguy said:
id love to see reloadable .44 henry,.41 swiss,.56-56 spencer cases the .44 henry and .41 swiss would need one .22 primer and a cut out for the firing pin on the other side or 2 .22 primers
Click to expand...

Instead of screwing around with offset primers, which require single loading with careful orientation, I was thinking in terms of real rimfire ammunition.
 
I don't know either. Navy Arms had CBC do runs of .32 and .41.
Years ago a company in the US had a 100,000 .41 Colts made. This was the minimum for a special run, at the time. They were told they were crazy. They sold out in a couple of months. They had another run produced. It sold out as well.

I think .25 Stevens Long should be reintroduced, with new rifles being produced for it. It is a dandy cartridge. Inside lubricated, accurate.
Given the various new rimfires, like the .17s, I think that there would be a market.
 
tiriaq said:
I don't know either. Navy Arms had CBC do runs of .32 and .41.
Years ago a company in the US had a 100,000 .41 Colts made. This was the minimum for a special run, at the time. They were told they were crazy. They sold out in a couple of months. They had another run produced. It sold out as well.

I think .25 Stevens Long should be reintroduced, with new rifles being produced for it. It is a dandy cartridge. Inside lubricated, accurate.
Given the various new rimfires, like the .17s, I think that there would be a market.
Click to expand...

id love a new .25 rimfire rifle and a steady supply of ammo much rather that then a .17
 
antiqueguy said:
there's a license you need. but if people are buying ammo for both snider and martini id want solid head cases proper size bullets and real black powder
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, but there may be a problem with selling/shipping BP-loaded cartridges. - I do know Bullet Barn sells loaded BP Substitute .45-70's however.
Remember, also, that Dominion/CIL loaded a smokeless .57 Snider round until (?) the '30s (?)




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I believe a 485grain hollow-base bullet was used, theoretically 'bumping up' to fill the grooves, hopefully enough to satisfy most bore sizes.
That, and perhaps a 520-grainer may be adequate for the vast majority of guns, obviating the need for a half-dozen different loadings to begin with.
 
Steyr1 said:
I'm not sure, but there may be a problem with selling/shipping BP-loaded cartridges. - I do know Bullet Barn sells loaded BP Substitute .45-70's however.
Remember, also, that Dominion/CIL loaded a smokeless .57 Snider round until (?) the '30s (?)




46896798871772982046.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

I believe a 485grain hollow-base bullet was used, theoretically 'bumping up' to fill the grooves, hopefully enough to satisfy most bore sizes.
That, and perhaps a 520-grainer may be adequate for the vast majority of guns, obviating the need for a half-dozen different loadings to begin with.
Click to expand...

yes but the problem is sniders are made from p1853 Enfield a muzzleloaders smokeless should never ever touch these guns you would not put smokeless in a muzzleloader. a bullet the with the length of about .600 or so would work for the 1 in 78"
 
tiriaq said:
I think that real RF ammunition would find a ready market. .25, .32, .38, .41 for sure, maybe larger ones like .44 and the Spencers.
But producing these would require a real ammunition manufacturing facility.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree big time, there is a big demand for all the old timer RF ammo, unfortunately I don't see that void getting filled anytime soon.
 
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