Major bullet seating problems

Silverado

Silverado

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Here are the particulars: FL sized/trimmed/prepped once fired Federal brass. Barnes TSX bullets. Not a compressed powder charge.

I tried both my RCBS micrometer seating die, and TWO Lee seating dies. Checked all dies for cleanliness and proper movement. Dies are properly locked down in the head of the press. Correct shellholder in both cases.

Measuring both OAL and length-to-ogive with a bullet comparator and digital caliper.

Here's the symptom (or symptoms.) First with the RCBS mic die, I would dial the die down (deeper seating) by 5 thousandths of an inch, and the bullet would seat another 5 thou. Give it another 5 thou, the bullet would seat FIFTEEN thou deeper. Too deep... put that one in the "pull these bullets" pile.

New case, new bullet. Try again... 5 thou gives me 5 thou. Another 5 thou... NO DEEPER AT ALL. Another 5... TWENTY-FIVE DEEPER. (At this point I feel this die is ####ed.)

Switch to Lee seater. Start by setting the die with one good, known round of proper length, then back off a half-turn to confirm with next round.

New case, new bullet. Seat bullet... a little too long. GOOD. Turn seater 1/4 turn... bullet seats a little deeper. GOOD. Give it another quarter turn (should be close to right...). Bullet comes out 5-6 thou LONGER than before. It's as if the seater is pulling the bullet out! Check for burrs in seater stem, clean/polish with steel wool... same result.

New case, new bullet. Try different seater die... same results.

What the ever loving #### is going on here?
 
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There as always been a discrepancy on Barnes bullets when measured base-to-ogive.
20 years ago, it was recommended to seat them 50 deeper than when seated to the rifling.
They are far better now but there is still greater differences with Barnes than most other bullets when measured base-to-ogive.
Part of that is attributed to the forming process with pure copper of gilded metal (Hornady) bullets.
Once the length-to-ogive is determined after loading three dummy rounds, the shortest is used for the standard and the die is set to about 20 thou deeper.
Currently using the 130 grain TSX in my .260 Remington and the 140 grain TTSX in the .280 Remington.
 
I just measured the whole box of bullets, and they only range .006" - .715 to .721 base to ogive, through the whole lot.

I feel like this might have something to do with either the dies (setup?) or neck tension, or both?

The bullets feel like they seat with plenty of resistance, and the prepped brass all measures .3045" to .3055" inside the neck.
 
I should also add that I've loaded a fair number of TSX bullets in the past in various calibres, and never had any strange produce as a result...
 
"...different seater die...same results..." Indicates something daft about the bullet. It only happen with Barnes bullets?
Did you chamfer the case mouths?
 
Case mouths were chamfered both inside and out after trimming. I have a pretty solid workflow for loading ammo, and didn't do anything different this time.
 
I don't think so? It seems to measure everything correctly. I tried some other ammo, bullets alone, and always get consistent results.

Also, the comparator bottoms out at 1.004", just like it always has.
 
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My guess would be you need a seater die for VLD bullets. I had the EXACT same thing happen when trying to seat VLD's and Lapua Scenars using standard RCBS dies - switched to a VLD seater/Redding die, problem solved.
It seems as tho the bullet gets stuck in the seater.
 
Check two things: see how your bullets fit in the seating plugs. If they're being seated to high above the ogive you'll get random seating depths. And lastly make sure your shellholder firmly contacts the die (at least with the Lee dies) because your press my not top out solidly. With my Lee press I can vary seating depth by 15 thou just by changing the pressure I top the press out with. Setting it up so the shellholder so it firmly contacts the die fixes that.
 
I have a Classic Cast press; it has positive stops on the linkage, which contact each time.

Lee's instructions call for just-touching less 1/2 turn to avoid crimping the mouth, and plus 1/4 turn to crimp; I'm set for no crimp.

When you leave the die touching the shellholder, does it crimp the mouth partially or at all?
 
I assumed you were using dead length seating dies with no crimp feature. Using a crimp die you are at the mercy of your press' design. Does your linkage have dimples in one set that contact the other? Mine seems solid but the difference between stopping just as it touches, and giving a little extra push was worth about 15 thou variation. When trying to be as consistent as I could I'd still get variations of 3-5 thou. Try seating a couple with just light pressure, measure them then set them back in the die and seat them again with firm pressure and check them again.

Silverado said:
I have a Classic Cast press; it has positive stops on the linkage, which contact each time.

Lee's instructions call for just-touching less 1/2 turn to avoid crimping the mouth, and plus 1/4 turn to crimp; I'm set for no crimp.

When you leave the die touching the shellholder, does it crimp the mouth partially or at all?
Click to expand...
 
EDIT: I was incorrect.

The stops on the linkage of the CC press are big tabs, and I'm always careful to seat with the same 'feel'.

I'm wondering if it's the brass. I'm going to try some of the identical loads with some Lapua brass to see if there's any difference.
 
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I'm on the neck tension wagon too. It's gripping, gripping, gripping...( Distorting the case slightly as you seat a bullet but it springs back to shape) one more adjustment... Finally the little bit more your pushing, finally overcomes the necks grip and the neck/shoulder pop back up to size while the bullet stays way down there.
 
Heard this can be a problem on presses that don't cam over such as your Lee. Never used one so can't verify if its true.

Also have found lots of neck tension (over 0.003"), inconsistent neck tension and dirty or dry case necks to cause irregular seating depts.
 
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