Ive seen a lot of the fancy stocks and custom bbls that can be put together for a fancy precision rifle. However, my question is, are there not hunting rifles out there that can duplicate both? Could it be precision and perfect for hunting? I know any rifle can shoot a bullet and kill a animal, but some of the precision guns , have heavy barrels, AICs stocks etc... Whats a good hunting rifle that can double as a precision rifle, right out of the box, with just some good glass on it? Im trying to kill two birds with one stone here.
Question...Can a hunting rifle double as a precision rifle?
- Thread starter GunGuy34
- Start date
In a word, maybe.
With enough money anything is possible, for example ATRS could put something together for you, but just as a rough guesstimate you'd probably be sitting on an easy $4500 to $7000 or more.
For a production rifle, it could go any way. Some guys can apparently use their Savage Axis to rival the performance of a custom rifle four times the price.
You could quite easily put together a first shot rifle with a light barrel so it doesn't end up weighing 12 pounds or more, but it would be ill suited for prolonged matches or rapid fire due to vertical stringing. Likewise with a short barrel, you might have to do some voodoo load tailoring to get back the velocity lost from length taken off to save weight or improve handling.
I'm far from an expert though, but it wouldn't surprise me if some flavor of Sauer or Mauser could do you good.
With enough money anything is possible, for example ATRS could put something together for you, but just as a rough guesstimate you'd probably be sitting on an easy $4500 to $7000 or more.
For a production rifle, it could go any way. Some guys can apparently use their Savage Axis to rival the performance of a custom rifle four times the price.
You could quite easily put together a first shot rifle with a light barrel so it doesn't end up weighing 12 pounds or more, but it would be ill suited for prolonged matches or rapid fire due to vertical stringing. Likewise with a short barrel, you might have to do some voodoo load tailoring to get back the velocity lost from length taken off to save weight or improve handling.
I'm far from an expert though, but it wouldn't surprise me if some flavor of Sauer or Mauser could do you good.
Think of it like this... say you are designing a tank for the military. You have certain factors, all of which are desirable: heavy armor/high survivability, high speed, long range, powerful/long range gun, etc. Even if cost is not a factor (which it always is) you can't have everything. The design has to balance these factors in the way which (hopefully) best suits the user.
Rifles are the same way. You have various factors: accuracy, reliability, weight, barrel heating, rate of fire, etc. You can't have everything, so you have to strike a balance.
Hunting rifles generally have relatively skinny barrels, as they only need to be accurate for a few shots, after which weight (to carry around all day) becomes the priority. Sustained fire causes serious barrel heating issues, and thus a decrease in accuracy (usually vertical stringing).
Precision/tactical rifles generally have very heavy barrels. Barrel heating becomes much less of an issue, but they can weigh twice what a hunting rifle does... or more.
From my own firearms, I have these three all in .308:
Steyr Scout - very light and comfortable to carry. Can be comfortably fired standing, kneeling, etc. MOA accurate. Sustained fire is limited to about 5 rounds. After which the barrel needs to cool down completely or shots will string out vertically. As such, not the best range gun.
AI Arctic Warfare - half MOA accurate. Utterly reliable and built like a tank. Barrel heating is not really an issue in shooting range scenarios. However it weighs about 17lbs. Cannot be comfortably carried very far for very long. Cannot really be shot standing, kneeling or any unsupported position.
Steyr SSG 69 - Medium profile barrel. Light stock. Sort of a balance between the two. Probably a bit on the heavy side for hunting though.
Something like a Remington 700P will also be a balance between the two. You can use it to shoot small groups at the range, or take it hunting. AICS stocks are, at there essence, adding a big block of aluminim to your rifle and bolting your action to it. Great for accuracy, repeatability, but just dead weight to carry around for hunting.
Hope that helps a bit.
Rifles are the same way. You have various factors: accuracy, reliability, weight, barrel heating, rate of fire, etc. You can't have everything, so you have to strike a balance.
Hunting rifles generally have relatively skinny barrels, as they only need to be accurate for a few shots, after which weight (to carry around all day) becomes the priority. Sustained fire causes serious barrel heating issues, and thus a decrease in accuracy (usually vertical stringing).
Precision/tactical rifles generally have very heavy barrels. Barrel heating becomes much less of an issue, but they can weigh twice what a hunting rifle does... or more.
From my own firearms, I have these three all in .308:
Steyr Scout - very light and comfortable to carry. Can be comfortably fired standing, kneeling, etc. MOA accurate. Sustained fire is limited to about 5 rounds. After which the barrel needs to cool down completely or shots will string out vertically. As such, not the best range gun.
AI Arctic Warfare - half MOA accurate. Utterly reliable and built like a tank. Barrel heating is not really an issue in shooting range scenarios. However it weighs about 17lbs. Cannot be comfortably carried very far for very long. Cannot really be shot standing, kneeling or any unsupported position.
Steyr SSG 69 - Medium profile barrel. Light stock. Sort of a balance between the two. Probably a bit on the heavy side for hunting though.
Something like a Remington 700P will also be a balance between the two. You can use it to shoot small groups at the range, or take it hunting. AICS stocks are, at there essence, adding a big block of aluminim to your rifle and bolting your action to it. Great for accuracy, repeatability, but just dead weight to carry around for hunting.
Hope that helps a bit.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
First define what you plan to do with the rifle. What does precision shooting mean to you?
Out of the box compare to a properly built rifle? No, yes, maybe.
Again, be specific in what the task is, that makes it easier to get an answer.
Jerry
Out of the box compare to a properly built rifle? No, yes, maybe.
Again, be specific in what the task is, that makes it easier to get an answer.
Jerry
It's really hard to meet in the middle between hunting rifles and precision rifles, compromises have to be made to shave weight. A "lightweight" precision rifle is still going to be somewhat heavy for a precision rifles.
Define your terms. What do YOU mean when you say "precision rifle"? - dan
Lots of people will get lost in the semantics, but yes, or course a hunting rifle/precision rifle hybrid is possible. I have been using a Remington LTR like rifle as just this beast for quite a while. The end result is something that is heavier than need be when I am climbing hills in the fall, and doesn't have enough barrel length or a bipod sled for "precision" shoots, but it does just fine in F-class competition out to 900m, and in positional shooting. I use the same rifle/ammo setup for all of it. The only thing that ever changes is I take the bipod off if I am hunting in brush.
Because of this, I feel that I am more confident in me using the rifle when it matters.
Because of this, I feel that I am more confident in me using the rifle when it matters.
Did you check out Cooper Firearms? Look at what Prophet River has to offer. For casual/non-competetive precision shooting you don't need a heavy barrel and you certainly don't need a fancy tactical or benchrest stock. Anyway, just my $0.02…….
- Location
- calgary alberta
A few years ago I would have said no, with the ongoing advances in technology today, yes you can.
The advances being made in carbon fiber wrapped barrels and carbon fiber technology in stock construction is the key. To have a 10 pound rifle/scope combination that is 1/2 MOA or better capable is possible.
This is an example of what I am speaking of.
http://albertatacticalrifle.com/hik...ct/274-maverick-carbon-fiber-hunter-300-norma
This is 1 of my own rifles, it weighs exactly 10 pounds with the 5.5x22x50 Nightforce scope on it. It shoots a .3 MOA, 5 shot group.
I opted for a hunting style stock, but just as easily could have made the rifle with a tactical style stock with lightweight fill and only added 1 pound to the overall weight.
This rifle could be further lightened by using a Rem 700 action as they are almost 8 oz lighter than our action, a titanium brake would also shave off a few oz, as would going with a blind mag.
MY definition of a precision rifle is a rifle that can consistently produce sub 1/2 MOA groups. I require a rifle that is totally capable of 1000 yard shots.
The advances being made in carbon fiber wrapped barrels and carbon fiber technology in stock construction is the key. To have a 10 pound rifle/scope combination that is 1/2 MOA or better capable is possible.
This is an example of what I am speaking of.
http://albertatacticalrifle.com/hik...ct/274-maverick-carbon-fiber-hunter-300-norma
This is 1 of my own rifles, it weighs exactly 10 pounds with the 5.5x22x50 Nightforce scope on it. It shoots a .3 MOA, 5 shot group.
I opted for a hunting style stock, but just as easily could have made the rifle with a tactical style stock with lightweight fill and only added 1 pound to the overall weight.
This rifle could be further lightened by using a Rem 700 action as they are almost 8 oz lighter than our action, a titanium brake would also shave off a few oz, as would going with a blind mag.
MY definition of a precision rifle is a rifle that can consistently produce sub 1/2 MOA groups. I require a rifle that is totally capable of 1000 yard shots.
hometownhero
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toon Town, Sk
Sure can. Ever check out the gunwerks hunting rifles?
ht tp://www.gunwerks.com/Shooting-Systems/LR-1000
They have other rifles as well. Ever seen a muzzle loader make consistent hits at 500 yards? Pretty amazing.
ht tp://www.gunwerks.com/Shooting-Systems/LR-1000
They have other rifles as well. Ever seen a muzzle loader make consistent hits at 500 yards? Pretty amazing.
Since you're looking for out of the box (that is what you mentioned in your post) here are a few examples. Those M52's in 6.5/284 look nice. Not sure how well they perform at distance though….hopefully someone who owns a Cooper can chime in...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...erfire-1-2-quot-at-100-yards?highlight=Cooper
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...erfire-1-2-quot-at-100-yards?highlight=Cooper
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
I say no.
Just based on weight alone....
For a hunting rifle I don't want even close to 10 pounds if I can help it.
For a precision rig I want it to be well over 10 pounds.
Just doesn't make sense.
Just based on weight alone....
For a hunting rifle I don't want even close to 10 pounds if I can help it.
For a precision rig I want it to be well over 10 pounds.
Just doesn't make sense.
I was just trying to decide what to buy, as there are tonnes of rifles available on the market, so stuff like a browning x bolt, looked nice, but is it precision? From what im reading it isnt, ive been looking at a lot of rifles lately trying to decide what to get, by knowing whats considered precision and what isnt, i can better make my decision. The plan will be mostly range work with this rifle. I have looked at some Remington 700 tacticals but they have that hogue overmold stock, which from what i read sucks. Which means i have to buy a stock for it, if i got that rifle. So i was wondering what is a good, decent precision rifle out of the box. That wont break the bank.
I have a ruger gunsite scout in .308. Would a decent scope on that do the trick. I dont plan on competiting or anything lol.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Not too many production guns out there, if any are gonna qualify as a "Precision Rig"!
As has been mentioned a "Precision Rig" means consistent 1/2 MOA, where most if not all factory rifles will hover around 1 MOA.
The Exceptions are gonna be purpose built target rifles, with heavy barrels, and heavy bulky stocks, or custom built hunting rigs, like the Coopers.
Really though, any way you look at it you are making compromises, and if you are gonna spend a whole bunch of money, compromises shouldn't be a part of the equation.
As has been mentioned a "Precision Rig" means consistent 1/2 MOA, where most if not all factory rifles will hover around 1 MOA.
The Exceptions are gonna be purpose built target rifles, with heavy barrels, and heavy bulky stocks, or custom built hunting rigs, like the Coopers.
Really though, any way you look at it you are making compromises, and if you are gonna spend a whole bunch of money, compromises shouldn't be a part of the equation.
A true precision rifle has no compromises - just like a purpose built race car is made for only one purpose.
The second you change something on it to make it better suited to hunting, it is no longer the precision rifle it could have been.
The one exception would be if the only change was to swap stocks between a hunting stock and a target stock.
My precision rifles are single shot. There is bedding support on the bottom of the receiver where the mag would be in a hunting rifle. There is also an extra actions crew in the middle of the receiver, where the mag would be in a hunting rifle.
What you can do is build an accurate hunting rifle.
The second you change something on it to make it better suited to hunting, it is no longer the precision rifle it could have been.
The one exception would be if the only change was to swap stocks between a hunting stock and a target stock.
My precision rifles are single shot. There is bedding support on the bottom of the receiver where the mag would be in a hunting rifle. There is also an extra actions crew in the middle of the receiver, where the mag would be in a hunting rifle.
What you can do is build an accurate hunting rifle.
- Location
- Niagara Region, Ontario. For now
Seems silly with all the cheap hunting rifles out there these days.
Build the precision rig, and don't compromise. This is the gun that is gonna get used most, and requires the most attention.
You can get a reliable hunting rig for under $1000 easily these days. You don't need to throw a bunch of money at a hunting rifle these days to get it to shoot sub MOA.
The only one that I know of is the Thompson Center Icon with the SS 5R barrel. It's a hunting rifle. But it will put 3 shots the same as a Remington 5R milspec. After 3 however the barrel warms up and the group will open up unless you take longer between shots. This is a result of the hunting contour of the barrel. But yes it could qualify as a precision rifle accuracy wise providing you understand the tradeoffs and limitations. That being said for a precision rifle I'd still buy a dedicated rifle. Same for hunting.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Precision can mean just about anything these days. What it means to you is all that matters.... but you don't seem to want to put parameters on your needs.
Soooo, this kind of goes around as what is the best dish for a Wedding or favorite colour or nicest ice cream flavor.
Can a rifle suitable for hunting also be accurate and precise? Absolutely. We BUILD these all the time.
Can a lighter rifles offer this level or precision for high rates of fire? Not likely but that is limited by what you mean by high rate of fire.
There are 6lbs rifles that will shoot 1" groups at 200yds. 3rds per typical hunting situation.
Would this rifle keep accurate to 5rds? Yes. More? depends.
You can't find a suitable anything until you figure out what you want in your hands. until then, this is kind of a bestest flavour discussion.
Jerry
Soooo, this kind of goes around as what is the best dish for a Wedding or favorite colour or nicest ice cream flavor.
Can a rifle suitable for hunting also be accurate and precise? Absolutely. We BUILD these all the time.
Can a lighter rifles offer this level or precision for high rates of fire? Not likely but that is limited by what you mean by high rate of fire.
There are 6lbs rifles that will shoot 1" groups at 200yds. 3rds per typical hunting situation.
Would this rifle keep accurate to 5rds? Yes. More? depends.
You can't find a suitable anything until you figure out what you want in your hands. until then, this is kind of a bestest flavour discussion.
Jerry
