Are Remington 870's Really Garbage Now ?

Ive owned a few new remingtons are they all were junk imo.

I had a 870P that cost over 1200 buxs, thing was picky as hell with ammo. My cheap mossberg 500 would eat anything. Ill never buy another remington shotgun, unless its an older one. Mossberg rules as far as im concerned.
 
I have a Remington 870Special Purpose I bought new in 1986. It is rock solid, great factory park finish etc. Looks old school Police 20" R/S etc. This year I decided to surprise my son for Xmas with a Shotgun to add to his fledgling collection. Looked at several Tacticool 870 models for 449-579, but just couldn't bring myself to throw 579 plus tax on the blackhawk stocked gun. The action felt like crap and the finish was the poorest looking I've seen. I haven't had a chance to look at Police models lately for comparison.
They had a Mossberg 590A1 SPX with AR type stock in the rack used, and after looking it over, I'm not a Mossberg guy at all never really handled one,..I said this is alot more gun for similar money so I bought it. He got a used shottie, but then again I got an SVT-40 from 1941 for Xmas, and we all know it's not about new or used for firearms, it's about initial quality. They all can be around 100 years from now and goin' on 200.........
 
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The 870's quality went to $h!+ because we, the consumers, didn't want to pay the premium for the better quality, fit and finish of the Wingmaster model and Police models! We wanted the same design but at half the price and that is exactly what we got. The problem is, the only Remington can offer the 870 at a competive price is by cutting corners...it's pretty simple economics really! If you want a quality product, buy it...don't go buy the bargain version and then complain it's not up to par!
 
Then go with a company that can deliver the product at the price. As stated, my Weatherby PA08 has gorgeous wood, a chromed bolt & bore, has been utterly reliable and cost $20 more than the Express. The difference? The PA08 is made in Turkey, the 870 in NY. I could be wrong, but the NYers probably have slightly better pensions and workplace safety requirements. Those cost more money than the steel billet for the receiver.

FF

VLT79 said:
The 870's quality went to $h!+ because we, the consumers, didn't want to pay the premium for the better quality, fit and finish of the Wingmaster model and Police models! We wanted the same design but at half the price and that is exactly what we got. The problem is, the only Remington can offer the 870 at a competive price is by cutting corners...it's pretty simple economics really! If you want a quality product, buy it...don't go buy the bargain version and then complain it's not up to par!
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VLT79 said:
The 870's quality went to $h!+ because we, the consumers, didn't want to pay the premium for the better quality, fit and finish of the Wingmaster model and Police models! We wanted the same design but at half the price and that is exactly what we got. The problem is, the only Remington can offer the 870 at a competive price is by cutting corners...it's pretty simple economics really! If you want a quality product, buy it...don't go buy the bargain version and then complain it's not up to par!
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The Wingmaster and Police are hardly much better anymore unfortunately, it would be cost prohibitive to build them as well as the 870s of old in America.
 
FyreFighter said:
Then go with a company that can deliver the product at the price. As stated, my Weatherby PA08 has gorgeous wood, a chromed bolt & bore, has been utterly reliable and cost $20 more than the Express. The difference? The PA08 is made in Turkey, the 870 in NY. I could be wrong, but the NYers probably have slightly better pensions and workplace safety requirements. Those cost more money than the steel billet for the receiver.

FF
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The problem is the PA08 will not out last even an Express version...the slide arm assembly of the PA08 is a poor design and typically breaks after a relatively low round count.

870P said:
The Wingmaster and Police are hardly much better anymore unfortunately, it would be cost prohibitive to build them as well as the 870s of old in America.
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It's only cost prohibitive because we aren't willing to pay for a quality "old school" pump action. Today's Wingmaster and Police are versions are what they are because Remington has found the maximum price we are willing to pay for them! The prices have barely changed in the last 20 years even though inflation has steadily gone up. Remington is simply offering what they can in the price range we accept. I'd pay $1200 for a new production Wingmaster (if the quality was on par with what the offered back in the day) before buying an over-priced semi-auto that will never last half as long...but Remington will never build it because there aren't enough consumers like me out there to make it worth their while!
 
I have an express and others I know have them as well with no issues. My question is why are they selling used for new price or higher on the EE? If they were such crap I would think that everyone would be dumping them. That they would be cheap to buy because no one wants them. As far as I am concerned this is just Chevy, Ford type of argument.

Just my thoughts on this
Steve
 
From someone who has one and uses it frequently, I am calling BS on this. I searched CGN ("weatherby slide arm") and got nothing but this thread and a Prophet River EE ad.

I did a google search of "weatherby broken slide arm" and got mention of one batch where the factory mismachined a batch of slide arms of a semiauto shotgun which was discontinued in the 80s.

Show me a thread where this issue has been mentioned as happening to more than a single person. Show me a picture of several broken slide arms. Give me something which says you have an actual fact to support this argument.

FF
VLT79 said:
The problem is the PA08 will not out last even an Express version...the slide arm assembly of the PA08 is a poor design and typically breaks after a relatively low round count.
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FyreFighter said:
From someone who has one and uses it frequently, I am calling BS on this. I searched CGN ("weatherby slide arm") and got nothing but this thread and a Prophet River EE ad.

I did a google search of "weatherby broken slide arm" and got mention of one batch where the factory mismachined a batch of slide arms of a semiauto shotgun which was discontinued in the 80s.

Show me a thread where this issue has been mentioned as happening to more than a single person. Show me a picture of several broken slide arms. Give me something which says you have an actual fact to support this argument.

FF
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I'm not looking for a pissing match here...but open your owners manual, go to page 23 and take a look at part #7, 8 & 9...that's the weak link and if you hang out around Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clays ranges enough you will see them fail. Just because it doesn't show up on the internet doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I never said the PA-08 was a bad gun...it's just not as good as the Express for long term durability!
 
No pissing match, but as someone who regularly puts a few hundred shells through the pipe at a sitting, I have yet to experience this. Or know someone who experienced it. Or read about someone who experienced it.

And by saying the gun would fail at a "relatively low round count", you ARE saying it is a bad gun. In fact, failure at a "relatively low round count" is one of the defining characteristics of a bad gun.

The PA-08 and SA-08 are two of the best values going.

FF
 
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I bought my Express (before the 3" chamber even) in 1990. Wonderful gun, but the finish does demand extra attention when it is damp out. The trigger group is still an aluminum forging, not plastic like now.

There has been no change to the Wingmaster, although they are now almost 900- new.

I would never, ever buy any firearm made in China, no matter how cheap or shiny. The word here is not 'clone', but 'rip-off'.

You get what you pay for.

I am still assessing the 887 Tactical I recently acquired.....
 
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My buddy bought the new 870 express and after the first two days of this seasons waterfowl opener the barrel already had a slightly rusty color trying to build on it. Plus he had to place 00 steel wool into the chamber to smooth out the rough finish. The gun worked well for him once he smoothed out tbe chamber...but the barrel starting to turn color was weird and would be a concern for me if I was looking to buy one
 
VLT79 said:
The problem is the PA08 will not out last even an Express version...the slide arm assembly of the PA08 is a poor design and typically breaks after a relatively low round count.



It's only cost prohibitive because we aren't willing to pay for a quality "old school" pump action. Today's Wingmaster and Police are versions are what they are because Remington has found the maximum price we are willing to pay for them! The prices have barely changed in the last 20 years even though inflation has steadily gone up. Remington is simply offering what they can in the price range we accept. I'd pay $1200 for a new production Wingmaster (if the quality was on par with what the offered back in the day) before buying an over-priced semi-auto that will never last half as long...but Remington will never build it because there aren't enough consumers like me out there to make it worth their while!
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The candle is burning from both ends; pump shotguns as a class have become budget shotguns in recent years, and so cater mostly to price-only buyers. Also you have the change in the business practices in the last two decades where big companies skimp on their products without accordingly reducing the price in order to pass the increased profits over to their shareholders.

A $1200 Wingmaster or Police just isn't going to sell in today's market and that may not even be enough to get them to the quality level of the design in its heyday anyway.
 
mb9 said:
I bought an 870 express tactical this past year and it is awesome. Nice finish (very durable looking), no rust even after being in the rain and just leaving it to dry. The gun functions flawlessly.

Would definitely buy another.
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You are either drinking the cool aid or a liar or a paid shill.
 
As with any product , some say 870s are great , others say they are junk........so those that like them , buy them , those that do not like them , buy something else . I have two 870s , a Supermag and a tactical....and they both work fine , ..I also have other shotguns , and they work fine as well . Sometimes I think it is the owner and not always the product that is at fault.....and sometimes you just get a lemon.....just saying...
 
Recently after I got my PAL/RPAL, I went to an LGS and tried shouldering an 870 express, Benelli Nova/SuperNova, and Browning BPS, with trying trap shooting in mind as well as getting into shooting shotgun for the first time.

Not knowing if I'm going to like shooting shotgun or trap, and since _to_me_ although the Novas shoulder the best but I can't justify the difference in cost, I went for the 870 express 28" bbl with synth stock for $315 after $30 mail-in rebate.

Yes, the quality of the 870 express is significantly below the Novas and the BPS, in terms of finish, and rattles. But the 870 price point suits me the best for my purpose, i.e. to get into shooting shotgun with _big_ possibility of not liking it.

Anyway, took the 870 to shoot 2 rounds of traps last Saturday at Silverdale. It was a windy and icy day. Gun was wet, ice got into the chamber, dropped some shells accidentally and picked them up and shot them anyway. No malfunction. Took the gun home, proceed with usual cleaning ritual. Today's inspection showed no rust.

Will report back to this thread when I see rust or experience issues.

HTH!
 
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