Well, that's the thing, isn't it. Most reduction efforts are temporary at best, and depending on the predator-prey dynamic in your particular area, it may or may not be useful. The underlying premise that killing predators is invariably a good thing simply because they "kill my deer" is a terrifically naive view.
Why I hunt Coyotes
- Thread starter Adrian J Hare
- Start date
Well, that's the thing, isn't it. Most reduction efforts are temporary at best, and depending on the predator-prey dynamic in your particular area, it may or may not be useful. The underlying premise that killing predators is invariably a good thing simply because they "kill my deer" is a terrifically naive view.
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
Our property has lots of old groundhog burrows, many of which I have filled. Since we have horses, that's a significant problem.
One the plus side, I've seen one groundhog in three years. I expect the coyotes are doing us a favor by snacking on these sum#####es.
We also have very healthy deer and turkey populations. Imagine that!
One the plus side, I've seen one groundhog in three years. I expect the coyotes are doing us a favor by snacking on these sum#####es.
We also have very healthy deer and turkey populations. Imagine that!
I agree with everything you say but in instances where we have low prey populations and high predator populations like we do right now in many regions of Canada, that temporary intervention by man can produce significant benefit to both populations. There will always be highs and lows in both predator and prey populations but man can do much to limit the height and depth of the peaks and valleys.
As there are alot of old wives tales and myths with so called scientific fact....lets start with global warming. Seems like alot of so called scientists have an agenda,, kinda like alot of cgn'ers..LOL
No... I am not a biologist... I am actually someone who spends an inordinate amount of time in the woods and has seen turkey rise to pest levels since their introduction and coyote populations rise along with them... The MNR stance on "biodiversity" is just way out to lunch... They have already admitted to releasing cougars in Ontario... What's next? maybe I won't have to go to Africa for my Cape Buffalo after all...
I may not be a biologist but I know enough about nature from years of observation to know that she will always do what needs to be done to balance herself... even without our interference... So to say MNR does a good job balancing the population while at the same time admitting that they bring in foreign species is somewhat hypocritical...
Do you have any details of the release they admitted to? I hear this story often but have never seen any documentation. I'd be interested in it.
What foreign species have they introduced?
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Wild turkeys are not an introduced species. They are a native species that was essentially extirpated due to human activity. The same goes for elk and the eastern cougar. While the turkey and elk have been reintroduced, I have not heard anything about cougar reintroductions and doubt there are any such plans for one.
- Location
- mission bc
yup... a good yote is a dead yote! and its just plain fun
While overregulated hunting was part of the reason the turkey dissappeared in the early 1900's a bigger reason why they dissapppeared was bush cutting for develpoment and agriculture... With cash crops being huge these days (corn) there is even less woods for them to populate so their reintroduction with regulated hunting has caused their populations to explode to the point where they have become pests... As for the elk, they were released in the bancroft area and have made their way as far east as Ottawa... Cougar sightings have gine way up and while the ministry denies or refuses to speak publicly in regard to a cougar release I have spoken first hand with one of the individuals involved in the program...
While these may be called "reintroductions", the fact i sthat Ontario is no longer the same place it was in the early 1900's... the landscape has changed and the climate has changed an dthe populus has changed as well...
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
Although if the native Cougar could make a comeback like Turkey and Elk, yet another game animal may become available to be hunted here in Ontario. It did not take but a few years after reintroducing Turkey and Elk when hunting them became available. It happened alot faster than most expected. It's great to be able to see so many species living together and thriving here in Ontario. The MNR is doing a great job here for the outdoors.
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, Ontario
In almost all these disputes, there's scientists and their data on one side, and the "I don't believe it" crowd, with no data, on the other side.
People are free to choose which they think is the more rational side.
Chuckbuster
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
A coupleof questions, if I may...So, you're saying that lack of suitable habitat is contributing to an explosion in the turkey population? And, regarding, from what you say can only be construed as a "secret" cougar reintroduction; the MNR is accountable to the public, which office and staff is involved in this deniable project?
What I am saying is that bringing back turkey to areas that are no longer suitable to sustain their numbers contributes to having them in large concentrations where the land can sustain them... this draws in predators such as coyotes who then also thrive in those areas.... It also makes it hard for other species that have to share the same habitat and food source such as the ruffed grouse... The areas that can support turkey in large numbers (like mine) are now to the point where they have become pests....
I'm not going to start the whole cougar debate on here again.... been there done that... keep in mind that up until last year the MNR denied there were even any cougar in Ontario... Do you believe every government agency is honest with the public?
I think a person needs to balance their often justified distrust of government with a strong resistance to wearing tinfoil hats. When one looks at the logistics and liability involved in a cougar transplant, it doesn't take long to see that it just isn't feasible. I think this rumour runs rampant in every province and there is zero evidence to support it.
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Don't be too quick to dispel it as a myth. The Missouri Game and Fish said the same, until a couple of radio collared cougar were killed on the highways, shot by hunters and caught on trail cam, then they had to admit it.
It's also common knowledge that there are cougar in the Kenora area and I don't believe those were released.
Have you got any info on Missouri G&F fessing up to a secret cougar transplant?
I've seen a cougar picture from Lake of the Woods...no doubt they are there.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
It's not a case of distrust.... and the logistics of reintroduction really aren't all that difficult.... As far as liability goes, reintroduction of native species wouldn't make the MNR liable if someone's cat or dog dissappeared... bears and coyotes attack pets and people as well... just animals doing what animals do....
Question for you though.... why does everyone applaud the ministry for releasing Elk and turkey and not get on them for not reintroducing cougar?.... You would think that if they wanted to truly balance nature they would try to reintroduce all species... not just the ones they can create hunting opportunities and generate revenue with.....
canadaman30
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Far from the City
It should not comes as a shock for what was once native, to still have a small breeding population. As far as a reintroduction it would not happen without public knowledge.
