Ontario geographic caliber limitations

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ff33 said:
.....This rule needs to be reviewed in my opinion. I can understand the thought process as the law is in place because the area is highly populated and they don't want stray bullets entering nearby cities. What gets me is that someone can take out their 270 WSM and blow a hole through a coyote yet my .30-30 is banned. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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This regulation has been in place in Ontario for decades

Many moons ago, I had a conversation with a senior policy specialist at Queens Park ( back when it was still called "Lands & Forests" ! ) The theory prevailing was that by limiting
caliber to 270, it would serve to prevent the rash of cheap & surplus Enfield 303's and FMJ ammunition then flooding the market from being used in built-up areas of the Province.
Without this, anybody with $ 25 or $ 30 bucks and a small game license could get a gun & supply of full metal jacket ammo to go groundhog hunting with north of Steeles Avenue.
 
The rule does not need to be rewritten, just read and understood properly like all legal jargon. It states, "may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre" key word is CALIBRE. The calibre in question is .270 which is clearly smaller than .275.

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of the .270 WIN and I had wondered about this regulation myself several times before I saw the light. As stated earlier in the thread, calibre and bore are different terms with different meanings.

Buy the .270, be safe and have fun!
 
It is legal, the question was asked, then answered, then debated.
Why ask a question if you don't want to accept the answer?
Some of us have gone through the same question, had it answered, then passed on the information.
Now, after your email and phone call to the MNR, you can be the next guy to pass the information on, and then doubted and debated. A cycle that makes the internet so much fun.
 
Pyd said:
It is legal, the question was asked, then answered, then debated.
Why ask a question if you don't want to accept the answer?
Some of us have gone through the same question, had it answered, then passed on the information.
Now, after your email and phone call to the MNR, you can be the next guy to pass the information on, and then doubted and debated. A cycle that makes the internet so much fun.
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well if MNR confirms verbally/in writing, I will have no reason to doubt and again and create another thread. This issue is fairly new to me.
 
ff33 said:
Off topic, but what does that make a .308 win. The bore or grove diameter.
This rule needs to be reviewed in my opinion. I can understand the thought process as the law is in place because the area is highly populated and they don't want stray bullets entering nearby cities. What gets me is that someone can take out their 270 WSM and blow a hole through a coyote yet my .30-30 is banned. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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+Never ask for something like this to be reviewed, particularly when we have a Liberal gov't. Review = we lose.

We have had this discussion many times, 270 is legal.
 
I believe that essex county stepped down to. 243 (6mm) as legal max for small game. I run .224 so never paid attention too close.
 
Hi,

There have been too many correct, incorrect and misleading answers above to respond to each one individually, so I shall try and get it cleared up. Did the British get this calibre debate correct when they created the 404 Jeffery cartridge? It has a groove diameter of.423" and a bore diameter of .412" (Van der Walt, 2012: African big game Cartridges, p282). Or did I miss some logic here?

If you face a judge regarding the size of the bullet you were firing (see, size does matter!), someone's opinion in an e-mail or phone call is not going to count, so let us see what the official Canadian literature and other respected American ammo publications state:

1) Canadian Firearms Safety course (non Restricted: Section3.1 - "Calibre is a measurement of bore diameter....could be measured in inches or millimeters from land to land or from groove to groove..." See, now you can use Dept. of Justice, Canada logic (it seems as if they published or condoned this prescribed book) and pick whether you see a 270 Win as legal or illegal.

2) The Hornady Reloading manual 9th Ed. of 2012, p899: "Calibre: The diameter of a bullet....") Enough said ??? Need some more convincing?

3) Speer Reloading manual#14, p1135: Calibre: (1) The diameter of a either a projectile or bore of a gun.

Would it not be much simpler if the people writing laws were informed? Why not just say bullet diameter = xx or xy? As for myself, I would just use a 6,5mm, 264 WM or then a 25-06, a condom just to be extra safe. Oh yes, and have a trigger lock fitted as well, just to keep everybody happy.

RSA1
 
Years ago when I lived in Ontario we worked closely with MNR. I ask an upper echelon officer who was also a gun nut about the 270 and he knows the bullets are 277. His response was that it is a 270 caliber and is legal and the enforcement has been that way ever since. I bet that they have even been instructed that the 270 is legal. If any charges have been laid you would see more posts on here than on any other subject.
Use it and don't worry. An officer friend of mine built a 14" twist 270 to handle those 90 gr hollow points. He knew.

Neilm
 
RSA1 said:
Hi,

There have been too many correct, incorrect and misleading answers above to respond to each one individually, so I shall try and get it cleared up. Did the British get this calibre debate correct when they created the 404 Jeffery cartridge? It has a groove diameter of.423" and a bore diameter of .412" (Van der Walt, 2012: African big game Cartridges, p282). Or did I miss some logic here?

If you face a judge regarding the size of the bullet you were firing (see, size does matter!), someone's opinion in an e-mail or phone call is not going to count, so let us see what the official Canadian literature and other respected American ammo publications state:

1) Canadian Firearms Safety course (non Restricted: Section3.1 - "Calibre is a measurement of bore diameter....could be measured in inches or millimeters from land to land or from groove to groove..." See, now you can use Dept. of Justice, Canada logic (it seems as if they published or condoned this prescribed book) and pick whether you see a 270 Win as legal or illegal.

2) The Hornady Reloading manual 9th Ed. of 2012, p899: "Calibre: The diameter of a bullet....") Enough said ??? Need some more convincing?

3) Speer Reloading manual#14, p1135: Calibre: (1) The diameter of a either a projectile or bore of a gun.

Would it not be much simpler if the people writing laws were informed? Why not just say bullet diameter = xx or xy? As for myself, I would just use a 6,5mm, 264 WM or then a 25-06, a condom just to be extra safe. Oh yes, and have a trigger lock fitted as well, just to keep everybody happy.

RSA1
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So, you are saying my M70 .270, is not? What is it then?

There are lots of calibers that don't represent the exact bullet diameter of the projectile.
.380 auto = .355 (9mm)
.357 sig = .355
.38 super = .355
.38 special = .357
.223 =.224
Probably lots more, but you get the picture ( I hope). The caliber is what is stamped on the barrel. That's all that matters.

If it came to standing in front of a judge, it would be "I was using a .270 caliber rifle your honour."



Some people seem to need to complicate things.
 
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This thread is full of fail. All that matters is your barrel stamp, as long as your barrel is stamped with anything less than .275 you are good to go. The diameter of the projectile has nothing at all to do with this discussion.
 
gps said:
Can someone post a pic of the stamp on their 270 Winchester that shows the bore diameter? There's a difference between the name of the cartridge and the bore diameter.

270 Win = .277 bore diameter

On one half of the argument, the cartridge is legal, on the other half, it is not. Talk about confusing.
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.270 Winchester = .270 bore diameter, .277 groove diameter.

OOPs, I see tjsudbury beat me to it.
 
2tall2 said:
. . . Some people seem to need to complicate things.
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Its not a matter of complicating things, its a matter of understanding what the convoluted legislation actually means, and how it will be interpreted by law enforcement and the courts, in what is arguably the least gun friendly province in the country. If we go along with the idea that the stamp on the barrel is the caliber rather than the name of the cartridge for which the rifle is chambered, we must then accept that a .308 is larger than a .300 magnum. That doesn't work for me.
 
Boomer said:
If we go along with the idea that the stamp on the barrel is the caliber rather than the name of the cartridge for which the rifle is chambered, we must then accept that a .308 is larger than a .300 magnum. That doesn't work for me.
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My Winchester Model 70 barrel is stamped ".270 Caliber."

The Ontario Hunting regulations state "...may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle,..."

That's all I need to know.
 
this vague regulation would have been so much simpler if it simply stated "...may not carry or use a rifle of greater bullet diameter than .275..." problem solved. How can the law be enforceable when it contains such vague statements without defining the key terms properly and there is no room for interpretation?
 
Jabol said:
this vague regulation would have been so much simpler if it simply stated "...may not carry or use a rifle of greater bullet diameter than .275..." problem solved. How can the law be enforceable when it contains such vague statements without defining the key terms properly and there is no room for interpretation?
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Why does anyone need to know the bullet diameter? The barrel is stamped with the caliber. The regulation also states caliber. That is all that matters.
 
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