We have had some questions about our schedule for 2014. We are working on it and will post it here and to our mailing list when it has been finalized.
Gracias!
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We have had some questions about our schedule for 2014. We are working on it and will post it here and to our mailing list when it has been finalized.
Gracias!
subscribed for interest.
Member of CSSA
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana
TAP, RACK, BANG
Hi,
I took the liberty of watching the video on the above tdsacanada website and have accepted the offer to ask questions, and therefore post the following questions and comments:
1) The Handgun 1 course seems basic, but with a high round count, and I was wondering why you do not offer a test ("challenge the course") which would allow shooters with some basic level to advance to the Handgun 2 course without having to go through the cost, time and high round count of Handgun 1.
2) Looking at the technique of the person demonstrating the shotgun, I believe it is very unwise to shift the shotgun to the weak hand so that you can load ammo with your strong hand. This is a very basic mistake! Keeping the firearm in the strong hand ("Master grip as John Farnham terms it") while loading allows the shooter to shoot the round in the chamber while loading the magazine, it eliminates the possibility of fumbling the change over from hand to hand, which may cause you to loose the firearm, due to loss of fine motor skills, somebody bumping you, your blood or rain making the firearm slippery, etc.
3) Why use such a long magazine in the shoulder gun demonstration if you are only allowed 10 rounds anyway? It may look spectacular, but it is bulky and the extra weigh and bulk is not needed.
Any enlightening comments would be welcomed.
RSA1
RSA: Religion Sensible Alternative: Packing beats Praying.
PLAYING IPSC with a racegun, shooting whimpy ammunition, does not prepare you for Real Shooting Application where targets shoot first!
Cool, thanks for checking us out!Originally Posted by RSA1
The word "basic" is relative. It may seem basic to more experienced shooters, or IPSC champions, but everyone has to start somewhere. We have had students take AP2 without having taken AP1 before, it's not a big deal, no test required. Potential students just have to communicate to us that they have prior experience shooting a pistol, and they are free to take register for AP2. If you're interested in this route, just let us know!
However, I would be careful about writing off any firearms instruction course because it appeared to be "too basic". I've taken several "basic" courses, and always have learned something, it's all about having the proper attitude and being open minded. We've had several students take AP1 more than once and come away from the course with improved skills. There are even a handful of students who take it every year.
There are several ways to skin a cat. Have to you tried this particular reloading method before drawing a conclusion about what works best for you? I've been convinced in the past there there was only a single certain & definite way to accomplish something, only to learn later that there were other methods out there that also had merit. Again, it's about being open minded. I would be cautious about proclaiming that something is a "basic mistake" before trying it yourself. Have you taken many instructional shotgun courses?
BTW, I thought our instructor's shotgun reloads in the video were very smooth and efficient.
I'm not sure I've ever heard the complaint that a mag is too "bulky" before! I can't comment on why our instructor chose this mag in particular but a few things that come to mind:
* the increased surface area of the mag allows for more efficient reloading. This is the main reason we urge students to come to our tactical rifle classes with full size mags that have been pinned, rather than the short LAR-15 mags. The full size mags are easier to grip, store and retrieve. Most mag pouches only fit full size mags.
* The rifle in question is an H&K UMP. My guess is that H&K do not manufacture small 10 round mags, so we Canadians are left to pin the full size mags.
A small mag in this instance would save perhaps 4oz of weight per mag?
We aren't in business to look spectacular. We are here to instruct shooters who are open minded on effective shooting techniques that improve both their skills and confidence level in the manipulation of their firearms.
Feel free to give me a call if you'd like: (905) 906-3212.
Travis Derouin
Director
TDSA Canada
travis@tdsacanada.com
Dear Travis,
Thank you for your comprehensive answer.
In response to my comment on the handling of the shotgun, the issue was the fact that the shotgun was moved from the strong hand, which does not allows the shotgun to still be fired while filling the magazine, with all the problems associated with moving a firearm from hand to hand when not necessary, and not how smooth the instructor pushed ammo into the magazine.
As you stated, there are many ways to "skin a cat". You can clamp the blade in a vice and move the cat around, thereby skinning it. Or you can clench the knife between your teeth, and then skin the cat. However, this does not make it practical. In the same way, moving the shotgun from your dominant hand, into a non-shooting / non-functional position in your left hand, so that you can load ammo with your strong hand while not being able to fire the shotgun already in your hand, to me remains a very serious mistake.
Obviously you do not have to convince me and I do not have to worry about correcting your instructor. This is just my believe of what works better in the real world, and believes, like religion, is not universally accepted. I shall keep my firearm in my strong hand while reloading, and everybody is welcome to do it their way, even if it means rendering yourself vulnerable while reloading. Why do you not also move the pistol to your left hand while loading?
Good luck with your teaching endeavours.
Regards,
RSA1
RSA: Religion Sensible Alternative: Packing beats Praying.
PLAYING IPSC with a racegun, shooting whimpy ammunition, does not prepare you for Real Shooting Application where targets shoot first!
I would agree that shifting the shotgun from shoulder-weak hand-reload-back to strong hand is not the most efficient means. It would be like a right handed IPSC/IDPA shooter keeping their mags on their right side and then shifting hands to reload. There many ways to skin a cat, indeed, and often it makes little difference as 'better' can be measured by ones preference, enjoyment etc but in these scenarios the goal would be the most practical, fastest means, would it not? In that case the parameters by which to measure 'better' seem more constrained and defined.
Would it be best to switch hands for a 'combat reload' when the gun has been shot empty or rather just to drop a shell through the ejection port with the weak hand?
I don't claim expert status and have a lot to learn but the training/advice that I have received from those who I consider highly proficient has always been clear - maintain strong hand grip when reloading and in the case of a tube magazine pump/auto make sure that the chamber is loaded first, then the magazine. Ideally be able to do it with eye on target as much as possible, loading with the weak hand.
With a bolt action I was taught differently (qualifying for the Northwest Parks ranger shooting standards with a very good instructor), in a manner that makes sense - keep weak hand on the forearm and load the magazine of the rifle with the strong hand that can quickly slam the bolt shut and move back to the pistol grip/trigger in a hurry.
I am not arguing, just discussing...
I'm surprised a promotional video we filmed three years ago is the topic of so much debate! We teach a few different reloading methods in our shotgun class. This isn't the only method we teach and shouldn't be interpreted as such. This video was meant to be a promotional video, not an instructional video.
I personally wouldn't compare reloading a shotgun to the manipulation of any other firearm, so the best practices of reloading bolt rifles and pistols I'm not sure are highly relevant to this discussion.
Have you compared yet the method you saw in this video vs the ones you are familiar with to prove that the alternatives are indeed faster? Just wondering. I would recommend trying it before drawing a conclusion about it from watching a video online. Maybe it works for you, maybe it doesn't, but you won't really know unless you try it. I've seen our instructor perform this reload several times, and it is fast. I assure you.but in these scenarios the goal would be the most practical, fastest means, would it not? In that case the parameters by which to measure 'better' seem more constrained and defined.
I personally like the loading of the shotgun with the dominant hand in this scenario. Shotguns are the most difficult firearm to reload due to the lack of magazine. It requires fine motor skills to load a shotgun shell in a tube, I assume we would all be more efficient doing this with our strong / more dexterous hand. Personally, I think the time gained through the advantage of using your dominant/more dexterous hand can make up any potential time lost by rotating the firearm and cradling it in your support hand. And if you don't have rounds in your shotgun, it's not much good for keeping it pointed down range.
I think the main takeaway from this discussion is: if you haven't tried out a technique, it's advisable that you do before drawing a conclusion about it. Keep an open mind. We provide a decent number of alternatives for various manipulations and techniques, reloading included. Some are better for some people, some are better in certain situations, and we let our students make the decision about what's best for them. We don't pontificate one way and claim it's the "only" way, and that others are "mistakes".
I think one should immediately sense red flags when someone, either a shooter, or instructor, talks about the one way "being the only way" to do something related to the manipulation of firearms.
Thanks.
Yeah, I'm not really sure when your forum turned into a debate on what way is better.....
This is a forum to advertise for their courses and for people who have actually taken said course to discuss.
Or for those that want to take the courses and are looking for more information.
And.....since I'm here, any plans to return to Silverdale to run some courses this year?
Hi TDSA,
I responded, asking the above questions, because your said promotional material (web page) stated that we could ask questions. Therefore as a potential student / client, I needed to establish what your training approach (Application, usefulness, suitability to real life or only for showmanship, sport shooting, etc. ) was, before I invested my time and money into it, or waste you time by being unhappy.
I have tried the shotgun reloading technique demonstrated in you shotgun video-section (of 3 years ago as per your comments) about 3 three decades ago, and discarded it. It is, after all, just my humble opinion, my belief, of what is right and wrong. I have no need to convert you or anybody else to my belief.
I wish you well in your training ventures, but I personally, after the above issues, shall not pursue it any further.
RSA1
Last edited by RSA1; 01-20-2014 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Personal details removed
RSA: Religion Sensible Alternative: Packing beats Praying.
PLAYING IPSC with a racegun, shooting whimpy ammunition, does not prepare you for Real Shooting Application where targets shoot first!
Hey there,
It is unlikely we will be hosting any courses at Silverdale, we will likely hold all of our courses at the Hamilton Hunting and Angling Association. It's only about 63km from Silverdale and we provide supplemental ATT letters to non-HAHA members so they can bring their restricted firearms to the course.
Thanks.
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