SHOT SHOW 2014: Tangent Theta Professional Marksman Series Rifle Scope

[wheels]

And as I predicted, there would be a couple guys who would try to justify what TT pricing point is by saying the are marketing to the "professional marksmen". Who do you think Nightforce and S&B are building scopes for? Do you think professional marksmen are not using those pieces of glass because they are subpar? I am not trying to criticize the fan boys of TT or Premier because it is well known that they build a great product. I have looked at getting the Premier Heritage, but the TT has gone up from their. I just don't think that marketing solely for the military and police is the best business model when the civilian market is huge. The only successful military contract that Premier ever got that I am aware of the CDN and that is probably only because they were CDN to justify the gross over spending. The CDN military stuck with two CDN manufacturers for sniper platform. To have to go up against all of the competition with similar feature, that right, I said similar features, (look at the NF Beast, Gen II Razor, and the S&B line) and it will pretty difficult to justify that price unless the military is getting a huge price break that us poor joes don't get to see because we don't matter.

Premier was awarded the Marine scout sniper contract. I thought the Canadian Military uses S&B scopes, nor was Premier a Canadian company.

I doubt you'll see Vortex being awarded any military contract.. their stuff just doesn't seem to be as durable as other offerings, maybe that changes with the Gen2 Razor.

How much has the price increased over the years for a S&B PMII? and the newly designed scopes from S&B cost considerably more than the TT.. I guess they're trying something silly like recouping their R & D costs.

In the end, assuming the glass of the TT is on par with the S&B, you have to ask yourself if the extra $ is worth it for no tunneling at lower power, a life-time warranty, a made in Canada product and (apparently) the swankiest turrets on the planet.

I suspect TT won't have any problem moving product, but time will tell.

[mildot]

I

'm still yet to see what a $4000 scope can do that my $1400 one can't. Just sayin

In the middle of the perfect lighting condition day, you are correct - the high end scopes doesn't do much more that the mid range, $1500 scopes. But in bad lighting situations, the high end scopes shine vs the mid range scopes. The high end scopes continue to provide sight pictures that allow accurate fires on properly identified targets, which you can't confidently do with the mid range scopes.

An example of this: at the Alleghany Sniper Challenge there is a stage called "Heart of Darkness"... its a >1000yd target sitting in a very shady, deep hollow in the ground. I was up there in poor weather conditions: foggy, rainy, generally low lighting. The guys running Benders and Premiers could see the target and, importantly and challenging, splash. Most of these guys made 2nd round hits - see their splash on the first round, make the correction and sent it. Most guys running the mid range scopes did not have similar success.

That is what the additional $'s are buying.

Here's a good quote from the HIDE, that puts it into perspective.They have a good thread on TT from the distributor Primal Rights. TT is chasing the S&B market.

[plainSight Solutions]

Here are the offical MAP prices (in US dollars) for the Tangent Theta line:

Model TT315M Professional Marksman 3-15x50mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 30mm tube, 40MoA of adjustment:
$2,998

Model TT315P Professional Marksman 3-15x50mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 34mm tube, 96MoA of adjustment, tool-less re-zero:
$3,697

Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 34mm tube, 96MoA of adjustment, tool-less re-zero:
$4,250

There remains a limited quantity of the Premier Heritage 5-25x56mm, illuminated with the MoA calibrated reticle, with 1/4 MoA adjustment, 34mm tube:
$3,521

Delivery on the new TT scopes is scheduled for Q2 2014.

[Rebel Rouser]

And as I predicted, there would be a couple guys who would try to justify what TT pricing point is by saying the are marketing to the "professional marksmen". Who do you think Nightforce and S&B are building scopes for? Do you think professional marksmen are not using those pieces of glass because they are subpar? I am not trying to criticize the fan boys of TT or Premier because it is well known that they build a great product. I have looked at getting the Premier Heritage, but the TT has gone up from their. I just don't think that marketing solely for the military and police is the best business model when the civilian market is huge. The only successful military contract that Premier ever got that I am aware of the CDN and that is probably only because they were CDN to justify the gross over spending. The CDN military stuck with two CDN manufacturers for sniper platform. To have to go up against all of the competition with similar feature, that right, I said similar features, (look at the NF Beast, Gen II Razor, and the S&B line) and it will pretty difficult to justify that price unless the military is getting a huge price break that us poor joes don't get to see because we don't matter.

Then what is the M8541A? They won the USMC Scout Sniper Scope contract in 2010. S&B was the supplier before that. As for CDN DND contracts they will probably win it once they CF finds a suitable replacement for the C3A1. Wouldn't you want to deal with a Canadian company. Look what happened over the Unertl fisco of trying to procure scope from a foreign contractor.

[Schecter 81]

Then what is the M8541A? They won the USMC Scout Sniper Scope contract in 2010. S&B was the supplier before that. As for CDN DND contracts they will probably win it once they CF finds a suitable replacement for the C3A1. Wouldn't you want to deal with a Canadian company. Look what happened over the Unertl fisco of trying to procure scope from a foreign contractor.

I stand corrected on the USMC contract. To my understanding, the PGW rifles being purchased by the CDN military are being supplied with the Premier glass. I was under the impression Premier was a Canadian company, can anyone else comment?

My main point is not that the TT product is not a good product, I assume they will be as the Premier guys have always put out a good scope, but it sure seems hard to justify the diminishing returns when you start to break the $3,500 mark when there are so many other strong competitors out there that have all be and are still in use with "professional marksmen".

Im sure there will be a few private owners who step up and can afford the money to purchase one of these pieces, but what I was saying is it is a shame that a Canadian company can't receive the support of the Canadian market because their corporate values dictate that the military contracts are their only target. There is a large consumer shooting community both in Canada and the US that would snap up a product that offers great glass and reticle offerings that TT/Premier does. The GenXR is a great reticle design and the glass is well respected. Although, 96moa of adjustment for a 34mm tube is a little disappointing, same can be said for the S&B though.

[yotawheeler]

i think something that many people loose sight of is that a lot of these companies who are just setting up shop can't compete in the $1000-$1500 range because they simply can't put out enough product to keep up with the demand that they would need while keeping the quality and standards that are expected of a local, canadian manufactured product. i don't know how many products that i have seen where its "well the make an amazing product but we just can't get them" or "the product is great but the customer service is terrible" how long do you think a company would last if they went after the bushnell or tasco markets by trying to compete with chinese/offshore crap....they could never pump out enough scopes to keep up let alone deal everything else thats expected from suppliers these days. trying to put their scope in the hands of every tom dick and harry would be the death of their company. give it time, if they stay afloat (and i hope they make it) I'm sure they will be able to start looking at more affordable optics for the average joe

I would love to be able to spend the $$$ on a PGW rifle and top it with a TT scope but like others have said....and the company also advertises these are built for the professional marksmen who are out there with lives on the line and if their gear fails...people die. i don't think they are grossly overprice. i can't afford/justify one but then i make my living as a welder and i go and blow my $$$ on the "grossly overpriced" miller and lincoln machines, i don't expect to be able to do my job with a $300 buzz box i bought at princess auto...

[kombayotch]

More pics added.

I have 3 Premier Heritage scopes. These are NOT just upgraded Premiers. The design on them started a year before they acquired Premier. What you see today is a combination of what they liked from their own design and the stuff that was good in the Premiers. They are new and these scopes are VERY impressive!

[spatrick]

Does anyone know whose selling them in Canada (dealers)?

[P0WERWAGON]

coretacsolutions shows them, 65 days to deliver though