Southern Alberta Tavor Course: It's Happening!

[CamDelle]

Thanks fenceline!
So this is as close to IDF training as you can get? They must be exceptional marksmen in Israel!
Did you find your stock trigger a hindrance vs. the Geiselles? When I spoke to the IWI rep at SHOT, he had never heard of the Geiselle and Super Sabra bow. I told him he had to go to Bill's booth to check out the rifle!

We actually found out that all the after market triggers are being destroyed by Israeli Tavors. They are made for American made Tavors and are being destroyed by 2 extra tabs on our bolt carrier....

Tvpp showed us a broken timney and a few guys had marks on their aftermarket packs and had some issues.

Many of us had stock triggers and no issues. I think average pull on stock was around 9.5 pounds.

It was a very hard 2 days. A lot of us older guys and many younger Im sure are still feeling it.

Rocky would be an excellent range for outdoors!

We also had to Torontonians at the course as well!

[fenceline]

One thing I forgot to add was the individual rifle assessment. We measured weight, optic height over bore and trigger pulls. Mine was an average pull of 9.5 lbs. The idf also use the meat of the second knuckle pad to pull rifle triggers, not the tip of the finger but the middle pad if that makes sense. Was different for anyone following the north American AR style. They use finger tip pads for pistols though. Just different styles.

The stock trigger for me wasn't an issue. Groups were fine. The trigger reset is a big part of effective follow up shots. If you aren't familiar with how to properly use the reset on any gun you own that has one, whether a glock or a Tavor, a shooter should spend some time on mastering it. It will improve your shooting a lot.

[Still alive]

We actually found out that all the after market triggers are being destroyed by Israeli Tavors. They are made for American made Tavors and are being destroyed by 2 extra tabs on our bolt carrier....

Tvpp showed us a broken timney and a few guys had marks on their aftermarket packs and had some issues.

Many of us had stock triggers and no issues. I think average pull on stock was around 9.5 pounds.

It was a very hard 2 days. A lot of us older guys and many younger Im sure are still feeling it.

Rocky would be an excellent range for outdoors!

We also had to Torontonians at the course as well!

Even the Geiselle triggers were not holding up? What was the round count before they went down?
Man, am I glad I stuck with stock!
I can see squeezing the trigger with the second pad for more leverage vs the tip for the lighter AR triggers.
I'll try that the next time I shoot my Tavor.
Thanks for a great report!
Here's a couple of questions for all those who took the course..
So now that you guys have learnt the proper manual of arms for the Tavor, how do you think you would do in a rifle match against AR shooters?
For those who own both platforms, in a money game, would you use the Tavor or your own AR? And why?

[fenceline]

No aftermarket triggers failed on the course. That was a general reference to other failures that have been seen with after market triggers. Tvpp showed ways to lighten the stock trigger without replacing the stock trigger pack. To around 6lbs.

Needless to say, I won't be changing my trigger system, be it the trigger pack, trigger, or anything in between. Personal preference. The cost isn't justified for me YMMV.

[fenceline]

This wasn't a course on shooting the Tavor to game it. It was as much about learning the idf philosophy of arms usage and how they do things. It was as much a cultural experience as a shooting one. That is the mindset I would suggest shooters take going into the course. Personally any time I take a course, I try to adopt the style shown by the instructor. Afterwards I adapt the knowledge to the rest of what I know, but in the course I try to immerse myself in that realm that the instructor knows. But that is just me. I understand that isn't everyone's deal.

It is a combat marksmanship course. Not a 3 gun course. There is a difference. You can run a Tavor like an AR, or you can run it like an IDF member would, or you can find a middle ground that works for you.

Part of being a student of the gun.

[Still alive]

No aftermarket triggers failed on the course. That was a general reference to other failures that have been seen with after market triggers. Tvpp showed ways to lighten the stock trigger without replacing the stock trigger pack. To around 6lbs.

Without affecting function? And reliability? I heard mucking with the stock trigger pack sometimes caused the trigger not to reset or stick or something...

[Still alive]

This wasn't a course on shooting the Tavor to game it. It was as much about learning the idf philosophy of arms usage and how they do things. It was as much a cultural experience as a shooting one. That is the mindset I would suggest shooters take going into the course. Personally any time I take a course, I try to adopt the style shown by the instructor. Afterwards I adapt the knowledge to the rest of what I know, but in the course I try to immerse myself in that realm that the instructor knows. But that is just me. I understand that isn't everyone's deal.

It is a combat marksmanship course. Not a 3 gun course. There is a difference. You can run a Tavor like an AR, or you can run it like an IDF member would, or you can find a middle ground that works for you.

Part of being a student of the gun.

Very wise words fenceline!
I subscribe to that philosophy. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) , I doubt I will ever be taking the Tavor or the AR to war!
Seeing as the IDF still has some units issued with ARs, did Lovie say how the troops felt about one vs. the other? Seeing as their lives do depend on it?

[fenceline]

Very wise words fenceline!
I subscribe to that philosophy. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) , I doubt I will ever be taking the Tavor or the AR to war!
Seeing as the IDF still has some units issued with ARs, did Lovie say how the troops felt about one vs. the other? Seeing as their lives do depend on it?

Not specifically. But they don't run the AR like we would either. The utilize a different finger pull technique (middle pad rather than tip pad) and utilize different drills. Just a different philosophy. The Tavor is locally made and fits better for vehicle and CQB conditions in urban areas and the tunnels found in that part if the world. It was designed to meet the IDF'S specific needs. Also the vast majority of AR are not built in Isreali for the IDF, they come from the US. The Tavor is locally sourced which from a supply point of view is much more secure. The AR is being slowly phased out there it would appear.

I will say I have a much better appreciation for the Tavor and those issued it. And I am a better tavor shooter because of this course. More tools for the shooting tool box for sure.

[TFunfer]

Great AAR and review Fenceline! I wish my work schedule prevented me from attending this course but look forward to attending one in the near future.

[onetwentyish]

We actually found out that all the after market triggers are being destroyed by Israeli Tavors. They are made for American made Tavors and are being destroyed by 2 extra tabs on our bolt carrier....

Tvpp showed us a broken timney and a few guys had marks on their aftermarket packs and had some issues.

Many of us had stock triggers and no issues. I think average pull on stock was around 9.5 pounds.

It was a very hard 2 days. A lot of us older guys and many younger Im sure are still feeling it.

Rocky would be an excellent range for outdoors!

We also had to Torontonians at the course as well!

This is quite disturbing. Where did this come from? I know TVPP's Timney broke, as have many in the US and a few in Canada, but I have only heard of one instance where a Giessele broke and it was chalked up to some how slipping through the QC xray checks of the cast hammers.

Fun fact: Giessele hammers are cast in the same foundry with the same metal, using the same process as the OEM IWI Israel hammers. I doubt you will see any Geissles fail unless its a fluke.