BERETTA 92s pistols

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johnone said:
AGAIN conclusions without fact, how did you determine that they are "well used" ? Personal examination in Europe ? Personal examination here
at our warehouse ?
John
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Maybe you could expand on your description and provide information as to how these are assessed as excited and vg and what the differences between makes one pistol vg or exceed in the eyes of marstar assessing standards? Or perhaps a bit of background on where these pistols previously were used. Or if whether or not these pistols have the European mag release near the bottom of the pistol grip or what most N American shoothers feel is a standard mag release button location.

When you put out limited info, you get people who speculate to fill in answers. Lack of info drives people to out source their knowledge to existing reviews out of the US and here from other sellers. These seem to be everywhere all of a sudden.

Hard to determine any facts when this is all we know from your description.

"Comes with:
1x Pistol
1x Pistol Magazine Pinned to 10 rds
1x Free Marstar lockable gun case ($15 value)
1x Free Cytac Hi Tec Polymer holster ($40)"
 
So here's a screen shot of the page your link sends us to.

On the one hand, the grading as VG implies that it is used. The picture implies that it is used. The tags on your site refer to it as a "beretta", "new", "special".

As for well-used, the picture YOU supplied shows considerable wear. This gun may not be representative of the lot, but seeing as how it is the only image you have provided, this is what we are basing our decisions on.

As fenceline pointed out, your listing provides very little detail and we don't hear back from you for a few days. In the absence of actual information, others are going to attempt to fill in the void. Don't like it? Give us the information we need to make an informed decision.

FF

johnone said:
AGAIN conclusions without fact, how did you determine that they are "well used" ? Personal examination in Europe ? Personal examination here
at our warehouse ?
John
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johnone said:
Would you be kind enough to show me where we said "new"
John
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FyreFighter said:
So here's a screen shot of the page your link sends us to.

On the one hand, the grading as VG implies that it is used. The picture implies that it is used. The tags on your site refer to it as a "beretta", "new", "special".

As for well-used, the picture YOU supplied shows considerable wear. This gun may not be representative of the lot, but seeing as how it is the only image you have provided, this is what we are basing our decisions on.

As fenceline pointed out, your listing provides very little detail and we don't hear back from you for a few days. In the absence of actual information, others are going to attempt to fill in the void. Don't like it? Give us the information we need to make an informed decision.

FF
Good day Fyre Fighter,
Since you seem to have difficulty reading our descriptions we are changing the section to read "recent arrivals"
We hope that this change will eliminate issues you or any other member of CGN may have interpreting our advertising.
We did not realize that the terminology we have used for years was such an issue.
We apologize for any misunderstanding or stress this may have caused, thank you bringing this issue to our attention
John
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Way to not even understand the issue in the least.

You get a cookie.


Try this approach once, let me know how it works out for you:

"Thanks for the feedback. We have changed our site description to make it less ambiguous. The pistol in the photograph is graded VG because _______. Firearms graded as Excellent may have ____________. The condition of the bore is ________".

If you actually answer questions instead of just bullying people these threads might not turn into $hitshows quite so frequently.
FF
 
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FyreFighter said:
So here's a screen shot of the page your link sends us to.

On the one hand, the grading as VG implies that it is used. The picture implies that it is used. The tags on your site refer to it as a "beretta", "new", "special".

As for well-used, the picture YOU supplied shows considerable wear. This gun may not be representative of the lot, but seeing as how it is the only image you have provided, this is what we are basing our decisions on.

As fenceline pointed out, your listing provides very little detail and we don't hear back from you for a few days. In the absence of actual information, others are going to attempt to fill in the void. Don't like it? Give us the information we need to make an informed decision.

What "actual information" could possibly be of use to our customers ?
Am I going to disclose which government released these pistols ? not likely
Will I disclose who our agent was in this contract ? No

I can say that they are NOT Italian surplus, there NOT from an American police force, they are NOT, as implied, heavily used, NOT from a US dealer.

You don't like the photo, what would you suggest we take pictures of each pistol received, not practical.

Have you taken the time read Marstar's warranty policy ? I don't believe you have, what are your concerns ?
John
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Here are actual questions your potential customers asked:

chadeech said:
What is the difference between S what does VG stand for compared to the current FS model
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FyreFighter said:
Are these new or are they retired? Refurbished at all?
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Mister Donut said:
Are these the ones with the wierd mag release near the bottom of the grip?
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FyreFighter said:
Whats the availability of compatible mags?
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So instead of arguing with me, how about you just answer the questions your potential customers had?

I don't care if these came from Italy, Bangladesh, or Neptune. Are there agency markings?
I don't care if you send me a photo of each specific pistol. I want a photo that is representative of what I am buying. You have the same photo on both the Excellent and Very Good listing. If I am buying an "excellent" and I see that scratched up POS you have posted, I am looking elsewhere.

How do you differentiate Excellent from Very Good? Do you use the NRA guide? Will Excellents have chipped grips/slight wear whereas VG may have small cracks in the grips/significant wear?

My concern - which isn't really addressed by you warranty - is paying too much for a dinged up used gun.

FF
johnone said:
What "actual information" could possibly be of use to our customers ?
Am I going to disclose which government released these pistols ? not likely
Will I disclose who our agent was in this contract ? No

I can say that they are NOT Italian surplus, there NOT from an American police force, they are NOT, as implied, heavily used, NOT from a US dealer.

You don't like the photo, what would you suggest we take pictures of each pistol received, not practical.

Have you taken the time read Marstar's warranty policy ? I don't believe you have, what are your concerns ?
John
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... Wow some people just can't stop boiling the ocean with their mad question asking...


FyreFighter said:
Here are actual questions your potential customers asked:









So instead of arguing with me, how about you just answer the questions your potential customers had?

I don't care if these came from Italy, Bangladesh, or Neptune. Are there agency markings?
I don't care if you send me a photo of each specific pistol. I want a photo that is representative of what I am buying. You have the same photo on both the Excellent and Very Good listing. If I am buying an "excellent" and I see that scratched up POS you have posted, I am looking elsewhere.

How do you differentiate Excellent from Very Good? Do you use the NRA guide? Will Excellents have chipped grips/slight wear whereas VG may have small cracks in the grips/significant wear?

My concern - which isn't really addressed by you warranty - is paying too much for a dinged up used gun.

FF
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FyreFighter said:
Here are actual questions your potential customers asked:


OK lets try this in the simplest terms possible,

" What is the difference between S what does VG stand for compared to the current FS model
I did reply requesting clarification of the question.
If we are looking at the model difference the S is the European version, bottom mag release made In Italy

"Are these new or are they retired? Refurbished at all?"
I thought we were clear, we showed VG and excellent, that does imply used.
I don't think new at those prices would be a realistic expectation.

"Are these the ones with the wierd mag release near the bottom of the grip?"
This question was answered by another member. 100% accurate.

"Whats the availability of compatible mags?"
Our mags are a little late, we will have plenty really soon.

" I don't care if these came from Italy, Bangladesh, or Neptune. Are there agency markings?
Others Have asked/suggested the origin, you may not care, they do..
The only markings are those of Beretta Italy.

" If I am buying an "excellent" and I see that scratched up POS you have posted, I am looking elsewhere."
What an eloquent way of asking a question.... I admit that sometimes pictures are not a good representation.... Therefore we have the Marstar Warranty.... Marstar sells thousands of of used firearms each and every year, people rely on our ethics and warranty to order.

"Excellent from Very Good? Do you use the NRA guide?" YES we do.

"Will Excellents have chipped grips/slight wear whereas VG may have small cracks in the grips/significant wear? "
Hardly logical, if such defect were present we would not have included them in our offering. You will note that when defect are present
Marstar makes a special effort to note them.

"My concern - which isn't really addressed by you warranty - is paying too much for a dinged up used gun."
Again I see some contradiction here.... You don't care about the warranty but are concerned about purchasing what you call a dinged up used gun ??
Aren't you concerned as to the dealer's reputation behind the sale ?
John
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FyreFighter said:
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For the record, these are not bad looking pistols. If they have good bluing like that pic, they are in very good shape. However, what hurts these is the mag release and the mag availability. If these came with 2 mags or had mag availability to purchase along with - these would sell easier. The price is approaching the new Girsan (92fs copy) model that comes with 2 mags (modern mag release), so that's another issue...

I read that the "S" models have no Mim parts unlike the modern 92 models (maybe someone can confirm), so that's a plus. Parts are inexpensive for the 92, Brownell's has a ton of parts and will ship here.

Yes, our dollar sucks right now. Not much you can do about it.
 
Here are the NRA guidelines:

EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

It might just be the picture, but the gun shown would be graded Good to Very Good based on the scratches just above the upper grip screw, the wear on the flat part of the slide (the rightmost arrow) and the scratch on the top of the slide.

FF

st1264 said:
For the record, these are not bad looking pistols. If they have good bluing like that pic, they are in very good shape. However, what hurts these is the mag release and the mag availability. If these came with 2 mags or had mag availability to purchase along with - these would sell easier. The price is approaching the new Girsan (92fs copy) model that comes with 2 mags (modern mag release), so that's another issue...

I read that the "S" models have no Mim parts unlike the modern 92 models (maybe someone can confirm), so that's a plus. Parts are inexpensive for the 92, Brownell's has a ton of parts and will ship here.
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FyreFighter said:
Here are the NRA guidelines:

EXCELLENT: New condition, used but little, no noticeable marring of wood or metal, bluing perfect, (except at muzzle or sharp edges).
VERY GOOD: In perfect working condition, no appreciable wear on working surfaces, no corrosion or pitting, only minor surface dents or scratches.
GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.

It might just be the picture, but the gun shown would be graded Good to Very Good based on the scratches just above the upper grip screw, the wear on the flat part of the slide (the rightmost arrow) and the scratch on the top of the slide.

FF
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If it doesn't meet your criteria (or another's), don't buy. You can buy a new Girsan for a little more. No need to belabor on the same subject over and over.
 
st1264 said:
If it doesn't meet your criteria (or another's), don't buy. You can buy a new Girsan for a little more. No need to belabor on the same subject over and over.
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I was responding to your post, which said they are in very good condition. Maybe you meant that figuratively as opposed to the rating. I was clarifying. And for the record, if you don't want to read my post, don't.

FF
 
I'm in the market - but based on that photo and that price, I am going to pass.

If reviews come back that indicate they are in better shape than pictured, I will likely buy one.

I would pay a premium to get one from a site sponsor, particularly given that John does have a reputation of refunding sales where the customer was not satisfied.

FF
 
FyreFighter said:
I was responding to your post, which said they are in very good condition. Maybe you meant that figuratively as opposed to the rating. I was clarifying. And for the record, if you don't want to read my post, don't.

FF
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Very Good means something different in everyone's eyes. I think these are 30 year old pistols, bro. Maybe for an extra fee, Marstar will send off the pistol of your choice for grading :jerkit:

I won't read any more of your posts, as you state the same BS in every one. If you don't like them, get out of the thread. If you want to continue talking sh!t in the sponsor's thread, there's infractions for that...

These are very nice pistols. I see some compatible magazines for sale elsewhere, too... I already have a surplus 92FS that shoots like a laser, no need for another 92. Maybe you haven't noticed, but new Beretta 92's ain't cheap either.
 
johnone said:
My favorite "expert" I was wondering when you would jump in.
I agree with you, everything is getting more expensive by the day.
The Canadian dollar fell through the floor in recent months,
shipping charges have increased 35% to as much as 75% percent
I may have mentioned this before, if you know how we can avoid all these increased costs, by all means lets get together,
we could offer you a very interesting consulting contract.
John
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You asked the question . I gave my opinion.
Sorry can't help you with your shipping problems
 
FyreFighter might have been a bit ornery though given FF's stake in wanting to buy one with hard earned cash I don't see any post that would warrant real complaints let alone infractions.
Totally understandable to ask a million questions on a used item. Actually stupid to buy, then regret. Ask before you buy; seems that was done.

Thanks everyone for clarifying.
st1264 said:
Very Good means something different in everyone's eyes. I think these are 30 year old pistols, bro. Maybe for an extra fee, Marstar will send off the pistol of your choice for grading :jerkit:

I won't read any more of your posts, as you state the same BS in every one. If you don't like them, get out of the thread. If you want to continue talking sh!t in the sponsor's thread, there's infractions for that...

These are very nice pistols. I see some compatible magazines for sale elsewhere, too... I already have a surplus 92FS that shoots like a laser, no need for another 92. Maybe you haven't noticed, but new Beretta 92's ain't cheap either.
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Why is it that John one seems to be the only dealer griping about shipping costs? everyone else in competition seems to be able to match or better Marstars pricing and have no issues on the shipping?

Maybe John should reach out to someone who's a competitor to fill that "interesting consulting contract"?
 
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